Singapore's LGBTQ News & Section 377A Discussion (compiled)

Steve5380 · July 9, 2019

1 hour ago, Guest guest7 said:

It looks like S377A will the last remaining sacred cow to be sacrificed at the altar muwahahahahaha......

Once its gone , all pretense of sanctity will be gone...

Once 377A is gone, there will be still another stronghold of sanctimoniousness: same-sex marriage. This one can be exploited with the tear wrenching preaching that real marriage needs to lead to making cute little babies.

July 9, 2019

But giving children to adoption or leaving them abandoned is not a sin. Same as not to care on your own children or neglect their existence, it is not a sin.

However, ...

It not easy to discuss anything with people who think the only means of life is procreation. We should go back into the medieval and set in a law to say that any sexual behaviour if not meant for making children is a sin as well.

Look at the article about that poor kid who has been hit by his mother until it suffered brain damage. https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/mother-jailed-65-years-serious-abuse-toddler-who-sustained-skull-fracture-brain-injuries

You know pointing out these contradictions on parents who abandon, neglect or severely mistreat their children has fallen on deaf ears with the decision makers, religious groups, straight people or politicians. But hitting on moral grounds against the people speaking out against gay people has not stopped them coming with even more hatred and nonsense to uphold something that has already fallen apart or where there is lack of any logic.

The countries who decriminalised gay sex have all fallen apart, correct? Those countries are all now a huge Babylon and all morals have disappeared...

Oh, yes...

Reading most comments on that article at yahoo is interesting.

"For LGBTQ People, The ‘Singapore Dream’ Remains Frustratingly Out of Reach"

Most guys commenting on the article circle around procreation and the "defect" of gays not being able to procreate.

What they forget is that the reasoning is flawed, because the gays wouldn't procreate by all means or just accidentally.

The commentators should ask the straight people why straight people don't procreate more, have less children or even none? Why are gays preventing them for procreating? Are it seriously gays who hinder straight couples to procreate? How? By what means?

You would need to come to the conclusion that it aren't gays that impact the amount of children with straight people.

Are we taking anyone from them?

I somehow fail to see the logic.

July 9, 2019

Reading most comments on that article at yahoo is interesting.

"For LGBTQ People, The ‘Singapore Dream’ Remains Frustratingly Out of Reach"

Here are the 190 comments on that article at yahoo.

Seems less than 2 % are neutral or pro gay.

I love those who say: Go somewhere else (as if this would resolve the problem...).

Just digest it. ... Maybe, the government is right to say that from the intellectual abilities the Singaporeans are currently not ready (or able) to discuss on this topic...

2 days ago

if you prefer not to get married and live with a friend of the same sex, it is perfectly ok. Also, what you do inside the room is up to you. The society policy not to accept this is right, so that there is no need for such couples to get married..... You just hide this underground and not make this a norm.

2 days ago

Look here! For any country, the government doesn't owe you a living. Public housings are government's ways of provision, but it's not an obligation.
Most governments provide public housing aid only if you are interested in raising the next generation.

But here even for singles, unmarried, you are still entitled to some form of aid in public housing.

But if you're willing to go through a traditional marriage and possible planning for pro-creation, in support of sharing the burden of raising the next generation, then it's a privilege to be given the highest form of support in public housing. I'm not saying we have the best policies in the whole world.

But if you choose to take on a different form of lifestyle, nobody's stopping you. But don't go around telling people owe you the consequences of your choices.

2 days ago

yahoo-please stop promoting these articles. This not U.S, not U.K.This is Singapore yah....

2 days ago

Please go to any country that approves yr LBGT rights. Dont try to fight or promote yr rights where the majority here are not accepting yr views. If you believe in democratic then please heed the majority feelings.

2 days ago

It’s not that straightforward as it seems. If 377A gets revoked, will they ask for more rights like being able to get married legally? Adopting a child? Buying a HDB flat? Receiving HDB housing grants for the purchase of the flats? The list goes on. So, I don’t think the government would approve such a thing as this is still an open minded country in SEA and not an open minded country in Europe.

2 days ago

I would prefer to spend time reading articles on how Singaporeans help save earth and also homeless here on our red dot. Nothing beat saving earth and ensuring livelihood of the poor. What the late founding father aspired and achieved in his lifetime ...we should continue to do....eg cleaning up singapore river, giving singaporean a home that does not burnt down. This is what we want.

2 days ago

To LGBT people, you can do whatever you want overseas like what LSY kid do. Since Singapore has a law against it, go do your business elsewhere. Singapore has no time for you. We need productive people who can produce babies. Though I agree you cant help your sexuality, just do whatever you do cos we can live among you. What's the point of getting married when you can't have children?

2 days ago

Seriously, enough of this plain & open advocating for LGBTQW. Each person has free choice - you choose certain style, there will be consequences, you must accept such consequences. That is how the world works - it is not perfect. Who doesn't want to make personal preferences and then complain the world didn't bend backward to accommodate the personal choices? For example, Singaporean males must do NS - this is a higher discrimination to a much larger portion of SG population. Don't want to serve NS, can default and jump to another country, don't come back. Do we see NSF/Reservists gathering at HLP every year screaming for "equal rights"?

It is really time that the "straight" portion of Singaporeans start organizing an annual event at HLP to promote the virtues of the natural things in life - like the man and woman thingy. Some LGBTs are also anti-religion; Ok, then the various religious groups should also organize a yearly event at HLP to highlight the "religious" aspects of the man/woman thingy. Most ppl I know are tolerant of the LGBT community but they shouldn't be pushed too far & have LGBT views rubbed into their faces ever now and then. Maybe it is time the "straights" start rubbing back --- in the LGBT faces, ever now and then --- see if they enjoy it. To each his/her/its own. Does Yahoo want to promote such a push-back? It can be real, it can be easily organized, there will be plenty of ammo from the "natural" advocates ......

2 days ago

Acceptance is given, not forced upon. Stop trying to tell us how influential you are. The law is not going to change because of your influence on confused minds. Majority of people still respects the natural order, which is man and woman union.

2 days ago

As every Singaporean knows the 'REPLACEMENT BIRTH RATE' is still unachieved. To approve & accept LBGTO in our society, is going to do more harm to replacement rate than good. Right now Singapore has 'opened' flood gate for FTs & FWs to make up the shortage of manpowers to attract foregin investors to help generate our economies. What can LBGTO helps to increase the birth rate/popultion? Answer is A Big: ZERO.

The only point LBGTO is able to contribute to SINGAPORE is 'the true statement' that all the different races is able to stand united as
'ONE PEOPLE,ONE SINGAPORE.'

i am not refering to male Singaporeans & female Singaporeans standing together, BUT same sex, be they males or females. The type of people truely stand together as ONE NATION, ONE SINGAPORE.

The present PM is shown smiling happily, at the back of his head; he is handing over Singapore to his DPM (Upcoming XXXX XXXX Heng to lead and work together with ALL LBGTO Singaporeans; some maybe New LBGTO who will set up homes here.

Future SAF need bot carry AR 15/AR 16, SAF will issue package of 'make ups' consist of lipsticks, face powder etc 'donated' by maybe "MAXFCATOR.' or other branded makeups companies.
There will be no more 'sissy' calling. It will be LBGTO who will be able to 'defense Singapore against 'terrorist threats or enemies threaths.' This terrorists; enemies will avoid Singapore, cause they will not want to have 'uncurable dieases' if they have intitmate relationships with LBGTO Singaporeans.

2 days ago

Lets have more articles on how the garment can help us with retirement issues, cost of living, bread an butter issues.

2 days ago

Lgbt yahoo articles are in every yahoo country and everyday why ?!?

2 days ago

Stop it Yahoo

yesterday

Are these articles FREE PROMO for LGBT ? There are better and more wonderful news of boys chasing after girls, get married, have beautiful children, fulfil the wishes of their parents, watching their children grow-up, playing with their grandparents..... taking 3-generation family photos.... THIS IS FAMILY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT FOR A FAMILY, CAN YAHOO JUST PROMOTE SUCH LOVING STORY OF A MAN & WOMEN GEETING MARRIED & SETTING UP A FAMILY ! STOP LGBT YOU SLY !

yesterday

Singles cannot apply for BTO too. Do we hear them crying out as discriminated against? Hotels have the right whether to host certain events. It’s business. Just as LGBTs are crying out for their right to have weddings in hotels, surely the hotels have the right to decline. So arrange you wedding somewhere else. What’s the big deal?

2 days ago

Just leave SINGAPORE & stay in Bangkok, just come back during your NEW YEAR and ask for forgiveness from your parent, they already very embrassed from what is going on...SAD SAD

2 days ago

What's wrong with Yahoo ?????? Trying to create disharmony in Sg with persistent LGBT news ??????

2 days ago

And one of the most important one will be the CPF withdrawal...never even a dream, least to mention a reality.

2 days ago

Just hold a referendum and see how people vote about it secretly.

2 days ago

Why call it a “Singapore dream” when it is their own dream only...

yesterday

I hope government will not go ahead with 377A. If LGBTQ become legalise in their marriage, I feel the Marriage become stain and no longer holy as it is and also encourage the Z generation to have that kind of relationship. What if they want kids of their own, they will tend to look for opposite sex and then they create jealousy and felt betrayal of their "Spouse". Heavenly father will not allow this kind of relationship. If our Heavenly father does, our Creater will not made Adam and Eve. I will think twice on each party support the legalise of LGBTQ in the coming election.

2 days ago

My advice: Live Right, Live Straight !

2 days ago

Owner who wants to rent out their apartment do not bother about tenant's sexual orientation. Yahoo, please do not mislead readers. They are more concern about rental price and / or race (sorry but its true)

2 days ago

I sincerely hope parents please keep this indoors and not let this get out of hands.Imagine who is going to birth ?

2 days ago

The photo of LHY's family reminds me.of Adams Family.

2 days ago

If these LGBTQ cannot accept it and become frustrated, they can always go to countries that support their kind. They can go Taiwan which approves same sex marriages. S'poreans need to build up our local population to support and substain our economy. S'pore needs to make more babies and at the same time not to break the fabric that hold us together. Please migrate by all means gays and you'll get the s-call happiness you seek. NOT HERE PLEASE !!!!

2 days ago

As mentioned, this is not 'straight', not normal, not correct, not in the right mind ....... as you know when a LGBT adopt children, the children will be brought up thinking like they do, this is not normal too

2 days ago

Stop wasting time over this nonsense. We have our cost of living issues, mrt time outs, falling birth rates, school education systems, ageing population, GDP growth etc etc. Do whatever you want, quietly

2 days ago

Only MAN and WOMAN together then can produce. (do not say use male sperms and inject into another woman's specimen, which is not natural birth in nature)

2 days ago

No mention of those abandoned without pension, just CPF which the government then declared unable to support our retirement?

yesterday

Maybe we could offer Pulau Semakau to the LGBT population to allow them to stay as a community and enjoy all the freedom they want. The catch is - the island would be leased to them for 99 years.

yesterday

you can live together, & do whatever behind closed doors, but do not promote your cause, & wants normal society to except your preferences. Anyway is it legit to put PM Lee pix in tis article? Is he???

yesterday

The word marriage is union between a man and a woman. Just like the word purple means Blue and Red. Don't change something that cannot be changed.

2 days ago

HIV, AIDS —————> loading in progress....

2 days ago

Once they repeal 377A, they will legalise same sex marriage and that will be the end of the PAP era.

2 days ago

Putin's recent comments re LGBTQ - "this part of community aggressively enforces its point of view on others." :-)

2 days ago

Don't agree and will never agree!

2 days ago

Pls LGBTQ, leave us alone

2 days ago

Nope.I still believe singapore dream is to draw out all our money from cpf at 55.

2 days ago

Did Heng Yirui serve "sum po char" to LHY and his wife?
:-D

2 days ago

No wonder S'pore population is dwindling. All is due Lgbts concept of man marrying man and woman marrying woman

2 days ago

First World Country third world wages. That's life here.

2 days ago

This article is so irrelevant

2 days ago

LGBTQ can be accepted by the community in Singapore. But the community prefer the LGBTQ to behave and be discreet with their lifestyle. The Law will never change for LGBTQ because the relationship of same sexes are not natural and does not contribute to the Human Race Production and contained it’s own social problems . Wide spread of LGBTQ will harm the society as a whole, mentally, socially, HIV/AIDS. If our next generation is being taught that LGBTQ is normal mentally , a group of mentally unstable, insecure people will be influenced to become part of LGBTQ. Some groups of man which are not job competence may result in joining the gay group for male prostitution, Transvestite sexual harassment will be an issue .Wide spread of HIV / Aids will spread and cause great consequences ! Same sex marriage in relation for the HDB home program is unfair for the normal family. LGBTQ same Sex has no contributions to the society rather a liability and therefore does not deserve & entitled for The programme ! Govt can help LGBTQ to choose their favourite country and export them to reduce unwanted social problems for the next generations ! Pink dot is a waste of Singapore Resources ! Let Hong Lim park be better use in the contributions towards Singapore !

2 days ago

IMHO by changing the basic definition for convenience is doing more damage to society, especially to children whose mind is still mallable. I support government to give housing to LGBT couple, but disagree that the basic definition of marriage and family be changed. There are certain things that are defined by nature, not by human being. Just because you prefer gray, does not mean you change what is black and white. Let's live with mutual respect. Both sides have their values. You can establish your value without changing ours.

2 days ago

Enough of Sword Fighters & Lickie Girl Issues plight...the WORLD has massive pressing issues to deal with.

By gaybabygangs on

2 days ago

The dream of lgbts is not compatible with nature. It remains a dream and they have to wake up one day to the reality. XD

18 hours ago

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2 days ago

same sex couple pls do not adopt any children.they need is bed time stories Not backside stories.

2 days ago

Yahoo again not ending what to prove?

yesterday

Simply disgusting lot. There are more important issues in Singapore that requires more attention.

yesterday

A bunch of attention Seekers!!! lost in love, lost in identity, lost in self. Lack of self-control, self-worth. Every human who is alive will definitely face discrimination one way or another, LGBT just wants to blow their trumpet and Pityparty themselves.

2 days ago

Look like this little red dot will soon become LGBT centre of Asia.

2 days ago

Most Singaporean don't accept LGBT

2 days ago

That LHY's family has brought shame to the late Lee Kuan Yew.

2 days ago

Enough of LGBT carp ! Is against nature and science and there is no sex term as LGBT in the first place so please bring this disgusting culture or habits or whatever you want to call it out of Singapore !

2 days ago

So the opposition party support gay marriage, Singapore PAP government Will win the election next year because majority of the Singaporean s are against gay marriage.

yesterday

LGBTQ people have been around since the world began with the Big Bang. Question is, let's all look at our own Beliefs. We talk about Compassion & Love. These words have been abused/thrown around so much. Put Compassion and Love in ACTION CORRECTLY.

2 days ago

The definition of marriage is of between two mentally-sound adults of opposite sex. Do not challenge this rule unless you are the disciple of Lucifer.

yesterday

...in other news, Ma Mere Boulangerie has closed down!!! Now where can I get good quality bread?

20 hours ago

It seemed to me now that LHY has a personal agenda against the brother. It seemed he wanted to support or show support to his son and therefore go to the brother to change law. Brother refused to change law for his personal agenda, he fights the brother out in the public.... even willing to collude with the opposition just because of this. Simply a personal agenda, not because he loves the country or have any interest to take care of the country but all because his personal agenda was not met.

Why do you think he is working so hard on this topic now? Could it be because he felt remorseful for his neglect of his children during their growing up days, he failed in his duty as a father that he now want to make back to them?

Does my guess make sense? Just guessing from observation...

2 days ago

Majority of Singaporeans (excludes the foreigners) will respect you IF you can please it indoors. Appreciate that.

2 days ago

LGBT has been prohibited since ancient time. So GTFO of Singapore.

2 days ago

If pink dot-dots increases in sgp, then gov should bring in more FTs as birth rate fallen deeper. Oppies how? Still want to support LHY?

2 days ago

LGBT- Kindly ask your self this question, Who gave birth to you? Isit LGBT?

2 days ago

Something is not Right with LHY parenting of his child, it western society this may be acceptable but not here

yesterday

The problem is many LGBT sympathizers are straight people but confused.
I also sympathize but I think the best solution is help them change back to straight. There is no gay gene and there is enough evidence it is nurture and not nature. The only nature are the hermaphrodites.
There are many stories of LGBT people changed back. Learn from them.

2 days ago

I wonder who poke whose backside...

2 days ago

Quite frankly speaking, I am perfectly straight, burn i can feel this sense of unfairness when it comes to housing and tax policies. It should be the same for ALL, regardless whether you’re straight, single, married, LGBT or whatever else. Giving special privileges to people just because they are young couples is ok, but please give the same to those who need a place to stay and need the real tax breaks. Who doesn’t know how to get married and have a kid, then throw their parents into nursing homes? Is looking after parents, LGBT or not, less a national duty than having kids and getting married? Whole point is the elderly are of no more use to the G, so you chuck them aside, don’t even allow them to withdraw their own CPF money, don’t even lend them some $ to have a shelter over their heads, and don’t give their children who look after them any tax or housing benefits! ... What’s the point of Pioneer or Merdeka generation? Less of these gimmicks!

2 days ago

#377AStays

2 days ago

Taiwan could be a good country for the lesbian couple if they want to get married and have a house of their own. Consider that option if they really want to be together with a "status".

20 hours ago

Just thinking aloud, should the boy and girl schools from colonial era still stay? Guess will be better if we only have mixed schools. As a parent, I will like to give best blessing to my two kids in their marriage and carry my grandkids one day

2 days ago

Why are they trying to Glorify Freaks?

14 hours ago

A wedding in the romantic notion of the games of thrones would not become a reality in every day life that will last a lifetime for an adult couple of the same gender.

It is a love of being in a family as brother or sister. The love that will withstand the difficult dilemma vulnerable times and enjoy the happiness of good easy wonderful times.

The greatest challenges to any adult couple husband wife and children, family of legalise brother or sister is the mental stress, cost of living, ability to earn a living, be successful in a business over the entire adult life till retirement can impose great stress, strain and fatigue on the family members.

Any family that cannot withstand the challenges of living in a costly place like Singapore, would they be committed to the legal relationship for life.

2 days ago

why when lky is alive he did not do what lhy wanted to do now to support lgbt?
What if there is a someone likes transgender? lol

2 days ago

Section 377A is absolutely necessary to contain certain queers who are turned on by the Toilet setting. They inexplicably want to do it in the toilet. They exhibit lust towards other toilet users. It is an addiction. To safe guard public interest, this law must be strengthened.

2 days ago

True esp the Swiss standard of living promised by Gct. He enj it while others suffer.

21 hours ago

We will make sure 377A stay for good in our dear country of Singapore!

22 hours ago

S377A must remained otherwise all Aqua people over the world will flock here and demand PR to enjoy the good life here. This will be an interesting Aqua country. Boleh jalan kelek-kelek ka di Orchard Road?

yesterday

sad. mix up brotherly love/sister love with love between man & woman love.

2 days ago

Nightmare to Singaporeans!!!

2 days ago

Wonder how to make love like that

yesterday

Shame shame, of hero grand father

yesterday

A carrot needs a hole. A hole does not need a hole. That’s nature.

2 days ago

Puzzled if the PAP intends to field LBGTQ among its GRC candidates for the coming GE?

yesterday

STOP Aids

17 hours ago

It'll be pretty scary to live in a world if, one day we break the code & cross the river of no return, it is packed w/people who can't control their minds & do unwholesome stuff? Because our values will be affected. E.g. Does a person with extraordinary personality with a reflex to kill has the right to do so? What would happen if he or she is given the right? Then, the law of attraction will do its work ...and, if every nation starts to break the code, our world will be in chaos.

yesterday

There are a lot of things that are technically illegal even if you do it at home. Photostating an entire book infringes copyright laws, having pirated dvds, watching porn, etc. But does our police go around checking every household for such acts. Of course not. So those LGBTs who are making noise about repealing 377A, get real la!! Do what you want and just shadap!

2 days ago

whstthbig fuss about them nobody cares we normal ppleleave them alone as we hve our own lives to worry about like inabilitytowithdrawour cpf savings

2 days ago

To LGBT don't spoil Singapore image, Singapore is very clean country if you think you have right for LGBT then go other country or find a empty island. Singapore like i say is clean,beautiful and multi races country, this LGBT really no moral at all

22 hours ago

Why is Yahoo giving free air time for the LGBTQ again? Why won't yahoo give air space to healthy wholesome family news to promote healthy wholesome families in Singapore when the birthrate of Singaporeans have gone all time low? Even the latter have their own struggles but everyone learns to adjust to the various challenges at different stage of their lives!

Have the LGBTQ community ever thought of the singles in our Singapore community? We live with the same constraints -- stay with our family till 35 years old then purchase our own flat or rent a place outside till 35 years old. Why is your community so special that you have to "cry father and cry mother" just because you can't apply for the HDB flat? You are just promoting the kind of lifestyle to the young. We all make adjustment in society where we are living. And from your article, it is very clear that you will not stop at repealing 377 A but will go all out to fight for legal marriage, adoption of babies and turning the table to cause healthy normal man/woman marriage couples to feel threaten if they don't create the wedding cakes you demanded or to sue the pastor who would not marry such same sex couples. Talk about equal rights and the Singapore Dream, ha?!

2 days ago

just leave it as an impossible dream that will never see fruitatation

yesterday

People want to be LGBT, is none of your business. Why should you impose your Christian values over others? And you say the pledge which has the word “equality” - does that not include LGBT? I am not LGBT but my religion never ask me to treat LGBT like lesser human beings. So those self practicing preachers pls go preach at your church, don’t expect everyone to follow your believes and principles.

2 days ago

Not against. Sorry but against GOD !

22 hours ago

Putting feeling aside, is kind of difficult and very difficult to agree this lifestyle is ok if you look from religious perspectives. Buddhist, Muslim, Christianity, cults, Hindu and etc. Please try and if still cannot please stay at best friendship level. We love you all brothers and sisters.

yesterday

Police, arrest these people. They are a group of illegal community.

2 days ago

Once, my vietnam girlfriend visited and we were about to order our food at chinatown, when we noticed opposite us, a table of gay men, some holding hands---what a fxxg sight! We almost want to vomit.. We cannot our food order and left!!!

2 days ago

Just my two cents. Procreation is an act of survival of the self. We saw this through evolution. And gender played a role. If a man do not feel attracted to a woman, the procreation will not happen and we will not be here today. But is the gender attraction iron casted. No I don’t think so. It depends on ecological system. If there is an oversupply, then the act of procreation for the purpose for passing on your genes will eventually reduce. As you can see in urban living like Singapore people don’t want to have babies. So if a man is attracted to another man and women to a women, to me that is part of ecological play. The world is in a explosive state with people. It’s a ticking time bomb. And one of the solutions nature has for us to divert our gender attraction. For gay and lesbians, you don’t have to push the pendulum too far to achieve your freedom. This Will have to eventually happen and it will be acknowledge just like how you evolution is an accepted truth.

2 days ago

The Singapore Dream Remains Frustratingly Out Of Reach.
The only way u want to Reach is to vote LHL out of the Parliament .

2 days ago

What a great article highlighting the REAL struggles, frustrations and restrictions faced by LGBT Singaporeans. The majority of Singaporeans have no idea about LGBT issues, yet the seem to think they know the facts. From the majority of comments here, it's obvious they have never spoken to a gay man or woman about their struggles. Maybe when they have a LGB or T child or grandchild will they start to understand that being LGBT is not a choice. That LGBT people do face discriminations, straight people don't. Thank you for this great article!

2 days ago

The problem is sex between men is a safeguard against them getting Aids why can’t they understand that?

2 days ago

No matter how frequent, how sensational ya goo put it to campaign for debauchery lifestyle ,
Majority of SG will stamp out any possibility of gay proliferation in SG at least for this generation (next 20 years),
That is good enough to dash any hope for the current young generat8n

2 days ago

For those who are gay let me say sorry first. But please be sensitive to the majority who are not gay. It's just a natural response from me that if I see gay hugging each other I tend to have that feeling down my throat that I want to vomit. That feeling of vomiting happens even if I close my eyes and think about it. I don't know why but maybe that's how mother nature make it this way. I just can't imagine that my Singapore becomes a land for gay which gay from all over the world will migrate here to live. If that happens, I think I will be the next one to migrate out.

yesterday

These buggers are already having more freedom now, able to protest and police taking a non-proactive enforcement approach and yet they are asking for more.

The very fact that they are a vermin and menace to the society is exactly the reason why they must continue to live an ‘inhibited’ life. The should be glad that they are not arrested or stoned to death like in some middle east countries.

Once these ‘Walkers’ are unleashed with the repeal of Section 377A, everything in society will go haywire, from going to toilets to having maternity/paternity leave and family values, property ownership rules.. everything damn thing dealing with the need to be a Man and woman will be
gone and freaking messy, confusing and sickening to the core.

Since actively arresting them would create backlash from ‘Human rights’ activitists and the usual sickos, I would an innovative way to remove them from the society, i.e. for the Gov to give them special incentives to migrate to ‘Gay-Friendly’ countries.
Since they are like mental cases with ‘Special Needs’, perhaps we can have a special ‘LGBT Extradition Treaty’ with these countries which will facilitate the smooth transfer of such inmates to their destination of their choice.

As they are now becoming an imminent threat to society, we have to make then get the hell outta here from S’pore at all costs.

yesterday

If the Oppo promote to repeal 377A, I will vote PAP !

yesterday

Is there a Singapore dream nowadays? When housing is beyond the reach of citizens and affordable to foreigners and the super rich? Maybe that’s why they call it a dream

23 hours ago

Mr LKY was our nation's pride. You brought disgraced to him and family by doing this and you still want to advertise here for all to see. Yahoo, please be sensible, you are not helping them at all. Infact, I felt so disgusted seeing the family photo and the newly wed..

23 hours ago

As long as these LGBTQ people are SG'rean, hold a pink IC and for those born male, have served their NS hardship, I believe, after having two cousins come out in my family and extended family, that the time has come for SG society to be more inclusive and not discriminatory. Those of you who have no such cases, easy to say this and that. When you have such cases in your family, sad no next gen, but what you gonna do? Display your hatred or find a way to accommodate? What they do behind closed doors is none of my business. But as SGrean citizen, they should not be deprived of their rights and benefits. I say let's take care of our LGBTQ fellow SGrean's first, before the PR, before the WorkPass holders, before the F.T., even if they straight.

2 days ago

CB rice everytime LBGT? Have you ever thought that if your parents are LBGT than there is no you?

2 days ago

More likely for most of them to attain their ultimate AIDs nightmare

2 days ago

In any lesbian couples, statiscally it has been shown about 70% one of them is a bisexual

2 days ago

What you do inside your closet is your business ... one should not air your dirty laundry outside

2 days ago

Totally lost my respect after that article on Pink Dot for that man although I had supported demolishing 38 Oxley Road.

2 days ago

did not write the other half of the LGBT side?

2 days ago

A pathetic apologetic propaganda article for the LGBTQ --YAWN....

2 days ago

Like I always said : Get the real thing if that is what you want. If you can't..save up and rent or buy one.

21 hours ago

It is wrong to put punishment on something which is not by their choice. Whoever has put up that part of the rule needs to have more perception to understand that why the couple, regardless male or female, have a liking for each other is due to their genetic structure. Our sexual desires are all driven by what is in our DNA and genetic structures and are not identical nor all perfect.
Such behaviors should be taken as normal as some genes are unfortunately created imperfect when born. Are we going to be so mean and cruel to penalize these people for something which they had no control of? It is just that they are a minority of the population and should not be looked down upon.
Learn to reason and not look down on the beauty of imperfection.

2 days ago

WHO ARE WE TO JUDGE THE LGBT ?? ONLY GOD CAN BE THE JUDGE. Nobody seems to hv an answer here. May be you will stop commenting the way here if you hv a child or grandchild who is LGBT. Dont try to be a smart alec on something you dont hv an answer.

22 hours ago

The Singapore declaration of independence is a plain piece of paper when compared to the ornated declaration of Malaysia. Also absent was god. Even in the proclamation for Singapore to join Malaysia was absent of god.

2 days ago

Singapore dream does not include lgbts. These freaks can go make their own dreams.

2 days ago

Time to ban Hong Lim Park LGBT protests!

2 days ago

Sick people. Just keep
Quiet and live alone. Don’t come out Kpkb

2 days ago

Stupid Yahoo. Kept promoting gay stuff. There are much more important thing that need people attention.

yesterday

It's amusing that LHL likes wearing a pink shirt.

2 days ago

Young one monkey see monkey do until so confuse, parents also just as confused??? Give blessings of joy, son so smart know how to be gay and be unusual stray from the norm! So parents cannot win them join them? A bunch of freak show glorifying freak shows! Lucky Ah Lao move on in advance, otherwise surely heart attack!

2 days ago

Sorry I mean Singapore is already very small. And if the whole world of gay migrate to Singapore too get married and live, that means Singapore population going to reach 10 million easily and in a few bus stop will have such a beautiful sight. That's the hard truth. Singaporeans need to ask themselves is this what they want. Or do they want a status quo or a compromise solution.

2 days ago

I particularly like the picture (third from last)
I will try with all out effort to woo / ciurt any one of them ,
Then during wedding day it would buy one get in free for me

yesterday

Yawn.... it’s almost boring listening to the same old rehash of LGBT imagined woes.

21 hours ago

Why keep on promoting these LGBT freaks? What morals yahoo have? Is normal relationships and love are so difficult to accept?! Why don’t promote normal relationships and love??

2 days ago

Let’s have a conversation with sea horses. Why does nature’s order not in place with them.

yesterday

This article clearly highlights the LGBTQ agenda; it is not just about repelling section 377A. They want to force people and businesses to serve them, or else be penalised by law - just like elsewhere in the world. Bakeries, hotels etc have been fined, closed down just because they decided to stick with their religious beliefs. Stay strong Singapore, don't let these LGBTQ nazis take over Singapore, as they have the rest of the world!

yesterday

One one hand 377 stays, the other hand they allows Hong Lim protests? LOL

2 days ago

Hear this Warning!
If you group of clowns believe in GOD, then obey what GOD says. If you dont, then blame only yourselves and prepare for doom and ultimately go to hell. 2 wrongs dont make one right. No human is above GOD’s plan.

yesterday

Thing will change

yesterday

You embraced, doesn't mean all must embraced.

2 days ago

LGBT marriages are practically useless to the state. What benefit is the state goig to get with lgbt marriages? These people will not be the ones who will bring about the next generation of singapore because they cannot bear children. Moreover they are a burden to society. The cost of homosexuality is hiv. Should the rest of singapore carry that burden because the lgbt choose to live that kind of life?

2 days ago

It’s not only LGBT couples that are penalized by the govt, even singles are unfairly penalized even when we take on our duties to take care of our elderly parents. Singles can’t buy larger houses from HDB, we don’t get subsided interest rates, and we don’t even get tax breaks from caring for parents as much as those who have kids ... Look G, WE DID NOT CHOOSE to be single. We did not choose to be single so that we can live a lifestyle, ok? It’s because we are struggling to make ends meet and feed our parents. So please use your bloody MP and minister scholar heads to think before you make stupid policies. At the end of the day, it’s PRs and new citizens who are benefiting from your stupid system. And LGBT and Singles and Divorcees are not human beings? Are they lesser Singaporeans than new citizens who have kids????

2 days ago

I visit Yahoo news less now because of its unnecessary coverage of LGBT issues to stir emotions. Garbage.

2 days ago

It is really a such DISGRACE to your ancestors especially to LKY. It is so “Maluating”! You should just keep it as a private family affairs. This is not something that is honorable to the majority.

2 days ago

why LGBT not help Singapore fight for more urgent discrimations such as illegitimate child born to sg unwed mum, cod withdrawal etc? If u can help others, I'm sure Singaporeans will help u too. Let's be a inclusive society and help each other.?

2 days ago

As long as they did not spread AIDS, it is their right to be gay or lesbian.

2 days ago

SG dream is only achievable by the pigs and gang.

22 hours ago

Who is LHY and families? Just because he is the Lee, that why is a news? Don’t over publish their story, they are nobody, other then the son of LKY.

23 hours ago

Human kind will go extinct if this goes on...

2 days ago

LGBT trying to overthrow Spore society ethic values!

yesterday

Stop all these from spreading more Aids. Save our Young Generation.

2 days ago

now got Q? for those who wanna marry their dogs or cats or even rabbits? these lgbtq freaks is like me asking my pet dog to lick my hotdog and I wanna marry her, I want no discrimination from spca or anyone and I demand public to respect me and agree what I do is right … sexual freaks if you cannot accept the public go commit suicide and ask your creator to give you the right body and most important mind

2 days ago

Society is shaped by its culture. You know pandora box? You can legalise same sex, what next, legalise drug? Why not u migrate to the west where LGBT have full rights?

2 days ago

Gay farks

23 hours ago

Gays have their right,we commoners also have ours.Gays are against the law of nature so its only right and just commoners are a bit uncomfortable.Discrimination or not ,to each his own.For me,who cares,u live your life i live mine.

2 days ago

The G should make a reservation for these LGBT ,maybe on the island of Pulau Hantu. Thete they can shout n scream for the rights etc. Dont contaminate others who is sick of your news everyday.

2 days ago

yahoo forever pervert postings, sick as hell

yesterday

Yahoo is so obviously run by gays trying to push this down Singaporeans throats. Wont be surprised if my comment gets deleted again by the pro-gay yahoo lobby. If you dont like Singaporean culture or values - go to another country and dont look back.

21 hours ago

Singapore with no natural resources, trying to cater to the whimps of LGBT will only derode the moral fibre holding this small country together reliant on wealth from other countries. The beginning of the end of a proud and foolish country that had forgotten its strong roots!!!
LONG LIVE MALAYSIA & INDONESIA!!

yesterday

Do not allow LGBT to adopt any children. Their will destroy the future and mind as well.
Disgusting people shld not allowed to go near any children. Their mind so poluted. Dirty ugly disgusting thoughts.

Spore is trying to built the nation with healthy generation not cripple population.

2 days ago

Yahoo is a gay club b for all I know.

23 hours ago

Time to stop the publicity over LGBTQ rights. Becoming simply sickening !

yesterday

LBGT is against natural order of nature!!

yesterday

We must be all against the LGBTQ, they are real viruses going around (HIV). They must be isolated in an island and left alone. If not, we will be the one staying in an island.

23 hours ago

Love cupids have been misfiring...and getting worst.
The God in-charge needs to be more stringent in his recruitment process.

yesterday

Muslim terrorists instead of bombing infidels should go bomb LGBT! At least no country will intervene...

yesterday

If two gay men are allowed to marry legally, then when they decide to get a child - who then takes maternity leave? Both of them? As in the case of Hsien Yang’s son who claims he is the wife, is he entitled to maternity leave? Haha

20 hours ago

They were the 1s who "CLOSETED? Themselves. Who's to Blame? Perhaps It'll be Better to Stay in IT...!

21 hours ago

Instead of gaining support, these LGBTS are really starting to annoy majorly of singaporean. KBKP some more, let’s partition to enforce strict 377A on them. Surveillance and monitor their movement, charge them under the law forcefully. Especially those big mouth perverts

22 hours ago

I wonder how lee hsien yang and his wife feel when they know or hear their son banging each other butts and sodomize, sorry i meant solemnize their marriage.

21 hours ago

this is a small island of great diversity. live and let live. stop trying to change others to your ways. we need to share this island.

stop drawing attention, stop making a nuisance of yourselves. i say to chinese, malays, indians, locals, foreigners, straight, gay, trans, able, disable, educated, uneducated, etc.

19 hours ago

please don't discriminate. You miss out another B.

yesterday

yo yahoo, we dont need to read any more articles about these sick psychos except that they are dead or sick.

2 days ago

FREAKS. Thats what they are. !!

15 hours ago

Stop the Aids

20 hours ago

This group must be sick. It is out of mind in a normal society and nature procreation earth. Oh no its really sickening ! OMG ! So disgusting !

10 hours ago

Kuku enough of this freak news can bring them down bo?

2 days ago

Go scr4w yourself; why encourage poke backside and abalone licking!?!? Cannot have normal relationship and sex??? Why must go against nature!?!

yesterday

Anyone want to thumbsdown on the article. Do it here.

2 days ago

YUCKS! YUCKS!! YUCK!!!!

2 days ago

Who has not engaged in oral sex before? Largely we are all sinners too, are not we?

22 hours ago

LHY look so happy with his son being a Gay!!! The mother is even more happy from the photo. Scarely………..

20 hours ago

This is your choice of being a LGBTQ freak...This is my choice NOT to accept you LGBTQ moron...

2 days ago

By the way, to all those LGBTs out there in Sg, you are sickos !!!!!!

By crapolainabox on

2 days ago

People who honor Gays,approved their lifestyle shall be condemned with them.Shall we wish all these Perverted Gays,and those who approved of their way,become Gays,and be Perverted also?

22 hours ago

So this is about the next election! LHY getting ready to get the gay votes.

yesterday

This is why oppies swear to take down PAP at all costs, so their gay partners can legally poke them in their backside.

22 hours ago

Sick sick people with sick sick propaganda!

10 hours ago

There's no place for LGBT in heaven. If they want to be free, they should slit their own wrists and then burn in hell for eternity.

2 days ago

all you need for PM lee son to be gay. Then 100% gay can even be PM. HAHAHAH

2 days ago

Lousy article. Write about Sodom and Gorromah.

17 hours ago

Homosexual relationships are JUST NOT NATURAL, PLEEEEAAASSSEEE !!! Stop SUCH discussions !!!! Its Out of line. Period.

22 hours ago

..claiming to be wise, they became fools...

yesterday

Hope the next PM IS NOT A GAY!!!! IF I AM THE PM, I will quarantine the LGPT into a isolated island n let them die slowly. Then it will be a black dot

2 days ago

I wish I could denonate nuke over LGPTand wipe theml:

auri · July 9, 2019

@derryfawne

You seem to be rehashing PAP's arguments regarding "public opinion" being the key to 377A's fate

Let's be real, the govt just use "public opinion" when it suits them.

LHL conveniently says San Francisco at one end, and the middle east on the other, but forgets to mention that the majority of Asian countries do not criminalise homosexual activity. Whether it is considered "moral" by these countries is a different story.

Edited July 9, 2019 by auri
add

July 9, 2019

2 hours ago, auri said:

@derryfawne

You seem to be rehashing PAP's arguments regarding "public opinion" being the key to 377A's fate

Let's be real, the govt just use "public opinion" when it suits them.

LHL conveniently says San Francisco at one end, and the middle east on the other, but forgets to mention that the majority of Asian countries do not criminalise homosexual activity. Whether it is considered "moral" by these countries is a different story.

The world is a pool of enclycopedia for PAP to quote and misquote to suit its own policial agenda. There is no consistency in their reasoning, just like Nina Khong, who has been put down strongly for using other people quotes, out of context, to satisfy her urge of “self-righteousness”. On that scenario, none of the PAP members dare to face international reporters when it comes to LGBT issues.

derryfawne · July 9, 2019

9 hours ago, auri said:

@derryfawne

You seem to be rehashing PAP's arguments regarding "public opinion" being the key to 377A's fate

Let's be real, the govt just use "public opinion" when it suits them.

LHL conveniently says San Francisco at one end, and the middle east on the other, but forgets to mention that the majority of Asian countries do not criminalise homosexual activity. Whether it is considered "moral" by these countries is a different story.

Interesting—because I drew a lot of parallel from other countries, not really specifically that of PAP's stance.

Nonetheless, the most important thing is to live in a society where the society and people around us doesn't discriminate us based on our sexual orientation and gives us equal opportunity, where there are no misconceptions about our orientation, and where we are accepted as who we are.

A world where there is no 377A but a gay gets bullied OR lose their jobs just because of his orientation is no better. What the law says is one thing, but that doesn't fix the fundamental of the problem: the homophobia that exists in the society.

This is why educating the public is important, REGARDLESS whether 377A exists or not. It goes right to the roots of the problem.

Edited July 9, 2019 by derryfawne

mate69 · July 10, 2019

13 hours ago, derryfawne said:

Nonetheless, the most important thing is to live in a society where the society and people around us doesn't discriminate us based on our sexual orientation and gives us equal opportunity, where there are no misconceptions about our orientation, and where we are accepted as who we are.

This is why educating the public is important, REGARDLESS whether 377A exists or not. It goes right to the roots of the problem.

This part is especially true, now that I have moved out of Singapore and am living in a country where to discriminate is asking to be called out openly

for bigotry - something which will have severe repercussions on one's social, professional life. For this alone, I am truly thankful.

Sometimes, we take things (and inertia) for granted, and as such, nothing really gets done until we decide to do things for ourselves, albeit

the path for each of us in life differs.

auri · July 10, 2019

16 hours ago, derryfawne said:

Interesting—because I drew a lot of parallel from other countries, not really specifically that of PAP's stance.

Nonetheless, the most important thing is to live in a society where the society and people around us doesn't discriminate us based on our sexual orientation and gives us equal opportunity, where there are no misconceptions about our orientation, and where we are accepted as who we are.

A world where there is no 377A but a gay gets bullied OR lose their jobs just because of his orientation is no better. What the law says is one thing, but that doesn't fix the fundamental of the problem: the homophobia that exists in the society.

This is why educating the public is important, REGARDLESS whether 377A exists or not. It goes right to the roots of the problem.

If China can decriminalise gay sex in 1997, and India in 2018, I do not see why Sgp is so special that it needs to maintain this law.

Of course, I agree that education is important as well, and until homophobia is eradicated, we also need anti discrimination laws.

July 10, 2019

47 minutes ago, auri said:

If China can decriminalise gay sex in 1997, and India in 2018, I do not see why Sgp is so special that it needs to maintain this law.

Of course, I agree that education is important as well, and until homophobia is eradicated, we also need anti discrimination laws.

Our government is suffering from a very acute diseases called MENTAL BLOCK. According to latest studies, such disease is incurable, so don't place hope on it.

fab · July 10, 2019

1 hour ago, auri said:

If China can decriminalise gay sex in 1997, and India in 2018, I do not see why Sgp is so special that it needs to maintain this law.

Of course, I agree that education is important as well, and until homophobia is eradicated, we also need anti discrimination laws.

Both countries have few abrahamic religion followers nor in those regions.

Also they do not have gutless govt who like to be politically right to please the majority.

happiness · July 11, 2019

I (and many LGBTs, I believe) grew up always having this fear that I would be executed, ridiculed and ostracised if people found out that I was gay. This made me very, very insecure. And so I was constantly pretending, in every way possible, to be straight, and someone I was not.

And this pretence did not just stop at being gay. It went as far as denying everything about myself, including even the most trivial things. For example, my favourite colour is blue, but if someone asked me what my favourite colour was, I would lie and tell him yellow or any other colour but blue, because I was very, very insecure; I was so afraid of letting people know who I really was, because I was afraid of their judgment. And by lying to them, I would be immune to their judgment because they would never be able to judge me based on who I really was, since I hid my real self from them. Who they would be judging, even if they wanted to, would be someone they thought I was, instead of my real self. This was my motivation behind all the lies and pretence that I was acting out. I was very afraid of showing them who I really was, because I believed that I would fall short somehow, that I would not be up to their expectations. So I would rather not let them know my real self.

And this also went to the extent of affecting my behaviours and interactions with people, including my close friends and family members. I would act to be a terrible person to them, making them angry and breaking their hearts, because I was afraid of their judgment. I was very fearful that if I show them who I really was, then the real me, in their eyes, would somehow still not be good enough, that I would not be a morally good person in their eyes. So I would rather act like a terrible person, so that at least it would be this fake person I was acting whom they would be judging and not the real me. I would then be immune to their judgment.

This made me unable to have any genuine, fulfilling, meaningful relationships with people. It further isolated me, and made me feel even more lonely, more powerless, more negative, more depressed and probably more suicidal. And from the initial pretending to be a terrible person, it gradually made me really become a terrible person. Over time, the acting/pretending engulfed almost every part of my life that there was no longer any distinction between the fake, terrible person I was acting and the real me anymore.

Another reason why I was pretending to be a terrible person was, deep down, I wanted to find out if my family and friends would still love me even when I was a terrible person. I wanted to test their love for me. I wanted to test whether their love was genuine and unconditional. And the only way to do that was to behave like an obnoxious, unlovable person. But of course, it turned out that their love wasn’t unconditional, and my relationships with them worsen. So basically, the issues of 377A and homophobia transformed my life from a model son, who seldom even spoke back to his parents, to a horrible, unfilial, cold-blooded son, and from a loyal, loving friend to a fake hypocrite.

I hope that those religious people who preach that being gay is a sin, take some time to reflect upon their actions and realise that their actions divide people, spread hatred in our families and community, and inflict great misery to real living people like us and our families and friends. Their one action could have long-lasting, far-reaching consequences. Their judgmental words could make a gay person commit suicide.

And I hope parents whose son or daughter might be gay, could learn from my unfortunate experience that often times the very unloving act from your gay son or daughter is actually, deep down, a desperate cry to seek your love.

Edited July 11, 2019 by happiness

July 11, 2019

On 7/9/2019 at 9:47 PM, derryfawne said:

Interesting—because I drew a lot of parallel from other countries, not really specifically that of PAP's stance.

Nonetheless, the most important thing is to live in a society where the society and people around us doesn't discriminate us based on our sexual orientation and gives us equal opportunity, where there are no misconceptions about our orientation, and where we are accepted as who we are.

A world where there is no 377A but a gay gets bullied OR lose their jobs just because of his orientation is no better. What the law says is one thing, but that doesn't fix the fundamental of the problem: the homophobia that exists in the society.

This is why educating the public is important, REGARDLESS whether 377A exists or not. It goes right to the roots of the problem.

However, to the extent that the existence of 377A is an impediment to public education and implicit official endorsement of discrimination and homophobia, it can be seen as one of the roots of the problem that needs to be removed ( repealed).

gsky · July 12, 2019

How Hong Kong passed homosexuality law, decriminalising same-sex acts, in 1991

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/short-reads/article/3018139/how-hong-kong-passed-homosexuality-law?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0zF-rM4Ke1SuT7CLZ4UjtXT5pkiE6kb-N-JNE6iGjwy7BIBYctzL7le9w#Echobox=1562893797

South China Morning Post, Hong Kong

Zoe Low

Published: 7:00am, 12 Jul, 2019

Updated: 7:00am, 12 Jul, 2019

“The Legislative Council yesterday passed legislation decriminalising homosexual acts between consenting men aged 21 and above in private, ending an 11-year debate,” ran the opening lines of a story in the South China Morning Post on July 11, 1991.

A review of the law had been prompted by a comment made in 1980 by then governor Murray MacLehose, who said he favoured a change in the laws on homosexuality. In July of that year a Law Reform Committee group was set up to consider the decriminalisation of gay sex. In a report published on June 8, 1983, it recommended that consenting adults, male or female, should be allowed to carry on with their sex lives in private.

The document included a comparative law review of similar populations with majority Chinese communities and found that “the prohibition of homosexuality in law only came about in British colonies with the onset of the Victorian era, and [...] the only Chinese societies left with anti-homosexual laws are Singapore and Malaysia, due to their history as British colonies.”

“The subcommittee’s reasoning”, the Post reported on June 8, 1983, “notes that homosexuality can only be deemed to be abnormal in that a minority of the population express it. But other minority conditions such as athletic or academic brilliance are not similarly discriminated against.”

The law reform, which the Post characterised as a political “hot potato”, started and stalled in the years that followed. Gay groups eventually took matters into their own hands in 1988, when they launched a letter-writing campaign to press for decriminalisation of gay sex. “The group said problems faced by homosexuals ranged from blackmail to police harassment in private places,” the Post reported on August 29 of that year.

It was July 1990 by the time the Legislative Council voted 31 to 13 in favour of decriminalisation.

Same-sex marriage is still not recognised in Hong Kong.

Edited July 12, 2019 by gsky

LeanMature · July 12, 2019

On 7/2/2019 at 12:30 PM, auri said:

The thing is, the govt does not even need to do a public consultation to repeal the law.... I mean how many laws come about just because they say so.

I fear it is due to a lack of will.

Yes, does not need. They are the majority in parliament.

LeanMature · July 12, 2019

On 7/10/2019 at 4:00 PM, fab said:

Both countries have few abrahamic religion followers nor in those regions.

Also they do not have gutless govt who like to be politically right to please the majority.

How about Singapore ?

fab · July 12, 2019

5 hours ago, LeanMature said:

How about Singapore ?

Many ignorance, hypocrites and butthurts.

happiness · July 22, 2019

Another reason for the repeal of 377A is in our pledge:

“We, the citizens of Singapore,
pledge ourselves as one united people,
regardless of race, language or religion,
to build a democratic society
based on justice and equality
so as to achieve happiness, prosperity
and progress for our nation."

But today, the LGBT community is deeply hampered in our pursuit of happiness and is facing discrimination and inequality, which ironically are also the values enshrined in our pledge.

July 22, 2019

Kong simi jiao way? You are judging people for saying they judge you. Blame blame blame others for your faults. You lie, you said you are a terrible person as you 'tested' your family and friends love for you??? You are a terrible person. You should reflect your own actions. Sorry hor, there will always ALWAYS be people against gays, there will always be racist, there will always be people who look down on people, there will always be people who hates dogs, cats, fishes, dislike to eat vegetables.....

You said 'their judgemental words can make a gay kill himself...ask yourself, aint you asking people to judge you? You live for yourself or you live for others? You seams to yern for other people's approval, thats asking people to judge you. And who are 'these people' anyway?

What a snowflake

July 22, 2019

snowflakes in the tropics

melt like tears in the desert

laughing like little hobbits

climbing a mountain with efforts

much water running in vain

drowning like dust in the rain

recognising my face in the water

it's like looking into a mirror

through a wide open door

there's not much I can and sing

still will face the gay haters

what to do if not nothing

smile with pride and hope for better.

July 22, 2019

3 hours ago, Guest poets mind said:

snowflakes in the tropics

melt like tears in the desert

laughing like little hobbits

climbing a mountain with efforts

much water running in vain

drowning like dust in the rain

recognising my face in the water

it's like looking into a mirror

through a wide open door

there's not much I can and sing

still will face the gay haters

what to do if not nothing

smile with pride and hope for better.

this sounds more like Snow on the Sahara.

Creevie · July 23, 2019

Life is hard enough. Stay healthy and fit, and take care of your own finances. Develop a positive social circle. Then, that sad gay part about you will be resolved.

Otherwise even if 377A is repealed you’ll still have things to find dissatisfied with.

shyc · July 23, 2019

9 hours ago, Guest poets mind said:

snowflakes in the tropics

melt like tears in the desert

laughing like little hobbits

climbing a mountain with efforts

much water running in vain

drowning like dust in the rain

recognising my face in the water

it's like looking into a mirror

through a wide open door

there's not much I can and sing

still will face the gay haters

what to do if not nothing

smile with pride and hope for better.

Poetic, love it.

October 31, 2019

We should make a petition.

October 31, 2019

On 7/12/2019 at 9:51 AM, gsky said:

How Hong Kong passed homosexuality law, decriminalising same-sex acts, in 1991

https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/short-reads/article/3018139/how-hong-kong-passed-homosexuality-law?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0zF-rM4Ke1SuT7CLZ4UjtXT5pkiE6kb-N-JNE6iGjwy7BIBYctzL7le9w#Echobox=1562893797

South China Morning Post, Hong Kong

Zoe Low

Published: 7:00am, 12 Jul, 2019

Updated: 7:00am, 12 Jul, 2019

“The Legislative Council yesterday passed legislation decriminalising homosexual acts between consenting men aged 21 and above in private, ending an 11-year debate,” ran the opening lines of a story in the South China Morning Post on July 11, 1991.

A review of the law had been prompted by a comment made in 1980 by then governor Murray MacLehose, who said he favoured a change in the laws on homosexuality. In July of that year a Law Reform Committee group was set up to consider the decriminalisation of gay sex. In a report published on June 8, 1983, it recommended that consenting adults, male or female, should be allowed to carry on with their sex lives in private.

The document included a comparative law review of similar populations with majority Chinese communities and found that “the prohibition of homosexuality in law only came about in British colonies with the onset of the Victorian era, and [...] the only Chinese societies left with anti-homosexual laws are Singapore and Malaysia, due to their history as British colonies.”

“The subcommittee’s reasoning”, the Post reported on June 8, 1983, “notes that homosexuality can only be deemed to be abnormal in that a minority of the population express it. But other minority conditions such as athletic or academic brilliance are not similarly discriminated against.”

The law reform, which the Post characterised as a political “hot potato”, started and stalled in the years that followed. Gay groups eventually took matters into their own hands in 1988, when they launched a letter-writing campaign to press for decriminalisation of gay sex. “The group said problems faced by homosexuals ranged from blackmail to police harassment in private places,” the Post reported on August 29 of that year.

It was July 1990 by the time the Legislative Council voted 31 to 13 in favour of decriminalisation.

Same-sex marriage is still not recognised in Hong Kong.

I thunk it will be there for a long time.

November 3, 2019

On 7/11/2019 at 10:05 PM, happiness said:

I (and many LGBTs, I believe) grew up always having this fear that I would be executed, ridiculed and ostracised if people found out that I was gay. This made me very, very insecure. And so I was constantly pretending, in every way possible, to be straight, and someone I was not.

And this pretence did not just stop at being gay. It went as far as denying everything about myself, including even the most trivial things. For example, my favourite colour is blue, but if someone asked me what my favourite colour was, I would lie and tell him yellow or any other colour but blue, because I was very, very insecure; I was so afraid of letting people know who I really was, because I was afraid of their judgment. And by lying to them, I would be immune to their judgment because they would never be able to judge me based on who I really was, since I hid my real self from them. Who they would be judging, even if they wanted to, would be someone they thought I was, instead of my real self. This was my motivation behind all the lies and pretence that I was acting out. I was very afraid of showing them who I really was, because I believed that I would fall short somehow, that I would not be up to their expectations. So I would rather not let them know my real self.

And this also went to the extent of affecting my behaviours and interactions with people, including my close friends and family members. I would act to be a terrible person to them, making them angry and breaking their hearts, because I was afraid of their judgment. I was very fearful that if I show them who I really was, then the real me, in their eyes, would somehow still not be good enough, that I would not be a morally good person in their eyes. So I would rather act like a terrible person, so that at least it would be this fake person I was acting whom they would be judging and not the real me. I would then be immune to their judgment.

This made me unable to have any genuine, fulfilling, meaningful relationships with people. It further isolated me, and made me feel even more lonely, more powerless, more negative, more depressed and probably more suicidal. And from the initial pretending to be a terrible person, it gradually made me really become a terrible person. Over time, the acting/pretending engulfed almost every part of my life that there was no longer any distinction between the fake, terrible person I was acting and the real me anymore.

Another reason why I was pretending to be a terrible person was, deep down, I wanted to find out if my family and friends would still love me even when I was a terrible person. I wanted to test their love for me. I wanted to test whether their love was genuine and unconditional. And the only way to do that was to behave like an obnoxious, unlovable person. But of course, it turned out that their love wasn’t unconditional, and my relationships with them worsen. So basically, the issues of 377A and homophobia transformed my life from a model son, who seldom even spoke back to his parents, to a horrible, unfilial, cold-blooded son, and from a loyal, loving friend to a fake hypocrite.

I hope that those religious people who preach that being gay is a sin, take some time to reflect upon their actions and realise that their actions divide people, spread hatred in our families and community, and inflict great misery to real living people like us and our families and friends. Their one action could have long-lasting, far-reaching consequences. Their judgmental words could make a gay person commit suicide.

And I hope parents whose son or daughter might be gay, could learn from my unfortunate experience that often times the very unloving act from your gay son or daughter is actually, deep down, a desperate cry to seek your love.

I still.don't get it. Why can't we just.move on.

November 12, 2019

K Shanmugam gives the green light for Yale-NUS talk on 377A by Indian lawyer

Law and Home Affairs Minister K Shanmugam has given the green light for a lecture by an Indian lawyer at Yale-NUS College about India’s journey towards repealing its gay sex law.

In a statement on Monday (Nov 11), the Minister said that the talk by Dr Menaka Guruswamy, a lawyer, is unlikely to prejudice Singapore’s courts, despite several ongoing cases on Section 377A of Singapore’s Penal Code.

Dr Guruswamy was one of the lawyers who had succeeded in quashing the colonial law that forbids sexual activity against “the order of nature” in India last year, thus decriminalising homosexuality.

In a Facebook post, Minister Shanmugam wrote, “Several people have written to me, objecting to a talk to be given by Dr Menaka Guruswamy, today. The talk is organised by Yale-NUS College. She is slated to speak on what happened in the Indian courts, on s377. There is also a Petition asking the Government to stop her talk”.

“The main objection appears to be that legal challenges to s377A are about to be heard in Court, and this talk could be sub judice”, he added.

When an issue is considered sub judice, it is under judicial consideration and therefore prohibited from public discussion elsewhere.

Mr Shanmugam also added, “I don’t see a significant risk of sub judice. Dr Guruswamy is a Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court of India . One may agree or disagree with her views, but I am sure she knows about rules relating to sub judice; and I don’t see an objection to her speaking about the law, and what happened in the Indian Supreme Court, where their s377 was successfully challenged”.

A petition against Dr Guruswamy’s talk was started by an Esther Lee and has more than 10,000 signatories.

This month, the courts see three separate court cases that challenge Section 377A of the Penal Code. This section deems sexual activity as “gross indecency” between males as a criminal act, and could be punishable by a jail term of as much as two years. /TISG

groyn88 · November 19, 2019

https://www.theonlinecitizen.com/2019/11/19/second-377a-challenge-arbitrary-enforcement-and-investigation-of-section-377a-makes-it-unconstitutional/?fbclid=IwAR2DgvAlu9zdJ0As2TxniKV8JU3im0WgyYcMKsISYphlykilpJXUGRj09XQ

Second 377A challenge: Arbitrary enforcement and investigation of Section 377A makes it unconstitutional

Kathleen.F 2019-11-19 Current Affairs

Section 377A of the Singapore penal code is a colonial-era law which criminalises acts of “gross indecency” between men, carrying a penalty of up to two years imprisonment. It has been a matter of debate in Singapore and the region for years, especially recently with countries like India repealing their version of 377A and Taiwan legalising same-sex marriage.

This year, there are constitutional challenges on Section 377A being heard in the Singapore Courts. The first challenge Mr Bryan Choong, was heard last week on 14 November. The second and third were heard on Monday, 18 November.

One of the challenges heard on Monday was for the case brought by Dr Roy Tan, a retired general medical practitioner and long-standing advocate of LGBTQ+ rights in Singapore. In a statement in September, Dr Tan described the law as “archaic and discriminatory”.

Representing Dr Tan is human rights lawyer M Ravi, who addressed the court on their arguments which centred on Article 9(1) of the Constitution that says “No person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty save in accordance with law”.

In a statement to the media, M Ravi notes that one of the arguments in the challenge is that the arbitrary nature of the enforcement of 377A renders it arbitrary in a way that it does not constitute ‘law’ within the meaning of Article 9(1), making it unconstitutional.
Double criminalisation

In their argument, M Ravi argued that the Section 424 of the Criminal Procedure Code (CPC) says that commissions of such acts as mentioned in 377A, the intention to commit, or the knowledge of commission of such acts by others must be reported to the police. Failure to do so is punishable by up to one month imprisonment or a fine of up to $1,500 under Section 172 of the Penal Code.

Counsel argued that retaining Section 377A, therefore, doubly criminalises gay and bisexual men. On the first level, for committing acts prohibited in 377A and on the second level, for not reporting those acts to the authorities.

As such, Section 377A when read with Section 424 of the (CPC) and 176 of the Penal Code, infringes on the right of these men to life and liberty afforded to them under Article 9(1) of the Constitution.

The lawyer also argued that Section 424 is another uncertain and inconsistent aspect of the enforcement of 377A since people may not be aware whether a failure to report such acts given the Attorney-General’s non-prosecution policy constitutes a reasonable excuse not to do so.

Furthermore, M Ravi argued that Section 424 obliges gay and bisexual men to report their sexual activities or intentions to the police while also imposing an obligation on their friends, families, and even neighbours to do the same.

“This leads to an absurd and arbitrary application of Section 424 on openly gay and bisexual men as it may subject them to surveillance by their acquaintances as well as to the humiliating and degrading acts of enforcement mandated by the law,” argued the lawyer.
Non-enforcement and non-investigation policy

In terms of enforcement of 377A, M Ravi said: “The discretion vested in the Attorney-General towards the non-prosecution of sexual conduct between consenting male adults in private needs to be considered against this statutory obligation imposed on the police to investigate complaints.”

He added that the circumstances in which the private sexual conduct between two consenting men will be investigated or prosecuted are unpredictable and vague.

The third prong of this argument is that Section 119 of the Penal Code also makes it an offence of public servants not to take action against those who might commit offences, including those outlined in 377A. In fact, it is the duty of a civil servant to prevent the commission of offences or risk being caught by Section 119.

To illustrate this, the lawyer gave an example of a domestic worker reporting to the police that her male employer is having sex with a consenting adult male. In such a case, the police is mandated by law to prevent the offence from taking place. Failing to do so will result in a criminal penalty as outlined in Section 119.

M Ravi argued that based on the evidence that the police will never, in practice, investigate allegations of private consensual sexual activities between men, it follows that 377A is arbitrary since it has no practical effect on law enforcement or alleged aims behind the legislation.

“Instead it only serves to identify gay and bisexual men as potential criminals and gives rise to fear that they may, one day, be prosecuted,” said the lawyer.

In his conclusion, M Ravi said “A measure will not, qualify as “law” where it is so absurd or arbitrary a nature that it could not have been contemplated by our constitution framers as being “law” when they crafted the constitutional provisions protecting fundamental liberties.”

“By extension, a provision which occasions an approach to enforcement is absurd or arbitrary may also infringe Article 9(1).”

As for their other arguments in relation to Article 12 which takes into account evidence relating to the purpose of the legislation being introduced in 1938 to combat male prostitution; and Article 14 argument on the freedom of expression, their arguments are similar to those outlined by the other two legal challenges on 377A.

groyn88 · November 19, 2019

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/377a-challenge-lawyers-use-legal-scientific-arguments-contest-laws-validity?fbclid=IwAR0oEggBALIv5a4iKWimal65Z8OvGlEWYUu5Ap4bw-wolfdbE7_-3_98Omw

377A challenge: Lawyers use legal, scientific arguments to contest law’s validity

SINGAPORE — The second and third of three challenges to Section 377A of the Penal Code were heard in the High Court on Monday (Nov 18), as lawyers used both legal and scientific arguments to support their claim that the law should be struck down. The first of the challenges was heard last week.

One case on Monday was filed by human rights lawyer M Ravi, who was representing Dr Roy Tan Seng Kee, a 61-year-old retired general practitioner and former organiser of the annual Pink Dot event for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community.

Mr Ravi argued that it remains “impossible” for a gay or bisexual man here to predict when he may be investigated, although the Government had stated that Section 377A, which ostensibly criminalises sex between men, will not be proactively enforced.

He said that the element of uncertainty remained because a policeman can be penalised for not acting on the arrestable act.

The other case on Monday was set out by Mr Johannes Hadi, Mr Suang Wijaya and Mr Eugene Thuraisingam of law firm Eugene Thuraisingam LLP, They represent disc jockey Johnson Ong Ming, 43, also known as DJ Big Kid.

They argued that Section 377A violates the Constitution as it is absurd, irrational and discriminatory to criminalise a person on the basis of his natural, unchangeable identity and for non-harmful private acts.

Mr Ong’s lawyers based their argument on expert evidence showing that a person's sexual orientation is innate and unchangeable.

The arguments were heard in chambers before Justice See Kee Oon in the High Court. The three Section 377A challenges started last Wednesday and are closed to the public.

The lawyers for the other plaintiff, Mr Bryan Choong, completed their submissions last Wednesday. Mr Choong used to be the executive director of Oogachaga, a non-profit organisation working with the LGBT community.

Read also: Section 377A doesn't criminalise gay sex and its purpose no longer exists, argues former chief justice

Next to build their case were Deputy Chief Counsel Hui Choon Kuen, Deputy Senior State Counsels Denise Wong and Jeremy Yeo and State Counsel Jamie Pang, who represent the Attorney-General (AG). Their submissions will be made public only after they wrap up their case on Wednesday.

OBLIGATION TO REPORT TO POLICE

In setting out Dr Tan’s case, Mr Ravi relied on provisions under Section 424 of the Criminal Procedure Code and Section 119 of the Penal Code.

Read also: Dissecting ex-CJ Chan Sek Keong’s paper on 377A: What it says, what it doesn’t say, and what next

The first obligates every person aware of the commission of or the intention of any other person to commit an arrestable offence — including Section 377A — to immediately give information to a police officer.

This effectively imposes an obligation for all gay and bisexual men to report to the police their private acts, making it “incongruous” with the non-proactive enforcement of Section 377A, he said in an email to TODAY, summarising the arguments he gave during Monday’s hearing.

And the second raises the spectre of criminal prosecution of the Singapore Police Force for not preventing sexual acts between consenting males in private, Mr Ravi added. With this, the police have no discretion but to arrest and investigate on information or evidence of private consensual sexual acts between adult males, he noted.

“It is accordingly impossible for a gay or bisexual man Singapore to predict when he may be investigated for engaging in consensual sexual activity with another man,” Mr Ravi said.

“Section 377A read with Section 424 and Section 119 will render Section 377A unconstitutional as the unpredictability and uncertainty about how the law is applied is, in itself, a serious interference with the liberty of gay and bisexual men.”

He further asserted that a measure “will not qualify as ‘law’” where it is so absurd or arbitrary that it “could not have been contemplated by our Constitution framers as being ‘law’ when they crafted the constitutional provisions protecting fundamental liberties”.

SEXUAL ORIENTATION 'CAN’T BE CHANGED AT WILL'

Mr Ong’s lawyers gave a more scientific take on their arguments, making it the first time in Section 377A challenges that the court has heard expert evidence on the nature of sexual orientation.

In the previous cases, the court was asked only to take judicial notice of scientific facts, the lawyers pointed out.

In written submissions sent to TODAY, Mr Ong’s lawyers highlighted a state-called expert’s apparent agreement with a psychiatrist they themselves consulted, that a homosexual male cannot wilfully change his sexual orientation or attraction.

Dr Cai Yiming — an emeritus consultant with the Institute of Mental Health’s department of developmental psychiatry who was called by the Government to testify — had cited studies showing that some individuals have been found to experience spontaneous and naturally occurring changes in sexual orientation, as opposed to wilful changes.

The lawyers added that another expert called by the Government, Dr John Tay Sin Hock, who is a retired geneticist and practising doctor and who was formerly the head of division of human genetics at the National University of Singapore, did not express an opinion on this matter.

Does sexual orientation or attraction have social environmental causes? There is no credible scientific evidence in support of this hypothesis, the lawyers said, referring to an expert they consulted, Dr Rajesh Jacob, a senior consultant psychiatrist at Promises Clinic.

They highlighted as well that Dr Cai had accepted that it is not disputed by experts in the field that genetics has some contribution to the causation of homosexuality. Dr Cai also cited studies indicating that hormones play a part.

Dr Tay’s opinion is that cultural and environmental factors likely play a role in determining sexual orientation, but the lawyers argued that no weight should be given to this assertion as he cites no material to support his claim.

The lawyers also built their case by recounting their client’s experience.

They said that Mr Ong, who has never felt attracted to the physiques of women, had tried for a number of years to change his attraction to men by praying, being active in church and dating girls throughout his secondary and junior college years, but he was not successful.

Mr Ong’s homosexuality “would always be a fundamental and unchangeable aspect of him”, they added, noting that their client had started getting together with a man with whom he engages in intimate acts on a regular basis since 2017.

The hearing continues on Wednesday.

groyn88 · November 19, 2019

http://theindependent.sg/with-section-377a-gay-and-bisexual-men-are-doubly-criminalised-lawyer-for-repeal-argues/?fbclid=IwAR04Vo_R6dYqhi-NLSY0tbGoTmurr6jRSyQ54X0mcZRWYHHrrnL5Mo2Yl30

“With Section 377A, gay and bisexual men are doubly criminalised”—lawyer for repeal argues

Lawyer M. Ravi’s argument is that Section 377A violates Article 9 of the country’s Constitution, which guarantees the right to life and personal liberty since it legally obligates the reporting of those who transgress this particular law, which includes gay men, their family, and friends, as well as medical professionals

Singapore—The third legal challenge to Section 377A of the Penal Code, which is Singapore’s colonial-era law that criminalize acts of “gross indecency” between males, was also heard in chambers by Justice See Kee Oon on Monday, November 18.

This challenge was filed by Dr Tan Seng Kee, an LGBT activist, who was legally represented by lawyer M Ravi of Carson Law Chamber.

Mr Ravi’s argument is that Section 377A violates Article 9 of the country’s Constitution, which guarantees the right to life and personal liberty since it legally obligates the reporting of those who transgress this particular law, which includes gay men, their family, and friends, as well as medical professionals.
According to Mr Ravi, “The mandatory obligation on all gay and bisexual men under Section 424 of the Criminal Procedure Code (CPC) to report to police their consensual private sexual acts caught by Section 377A is incongruous with the so-called non-proactive enforcement of Section 377A, thus resulting in absurd and arbitrary application of 377A which is a violation of Article 9(1) of the Constitution.”

Furthermore, the lawyer argued that keeping Section 377A would doubly criminalize gay and bisexual men “on the first level via committing acts prohibited by Section 377A, and on the second level by not reporting these acts to the police.”

On the matter of putting health professionals needing to report on cases of violation of 377A as well, Mr Ravi argued that while an affidavit filed by Dr. Derrick Heng’s on behalf of the AG says that the Ministry of Health “will not require its healthcare professionals to report patients to the police if they are aware that the patient has male sex partners, or even if the patient is HIV-positive,” this is also contrary to Section 424, which renders criminal the omission of healthcare professionals in the civil service of reporting their patients to the police if they are aware of the sexual acts of their gay or bisexual patients. Mr Ravi said that “In this regard, contrary to the AGG’s assertion, the healthcare professionals are faced with the spectre of prosecution.”

According to Section 424 of the Criminal Procedure Code (CPC), individuals who are aware of the commission of, or the intention of any other person to commit, any arrestable offence punishable under Chapter XVI of the Penal Code, needs to report this to the police. Section 377A is under Chapter XVI of the Penal Code.

On November 13, when the first challenge to Section 377A was heard in High Court, the lawyers fighting for its repeal argued that the law’s original aim was to prevent the proliferation of male prostitution, and it was not targeted against sexual acts between males that are private and mutually consensual.

Furthermore, the lawyers also argued that Section 377A had not been aimed at deeming penetrative sex a criminal act. This, they say, had been covered already under Section 377, which had been repealed 12 years ago.

The first case to challenge Section 377A was filed by the former executive director of Oogachaga, Choong Chee Hong, also known as Bryan Choong. Oogachaga, is a lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) non-profit organisation.

The second challenge, which was also heard in court on Monday, November 18. It was filed by disc jockey Johnson Ong Ming, who was represented by Eugene Thuraisingam, Suang Wijaya and Johannes Hadi of Eugene Thuraisingam LLP.

Lawyers for Mr Ong argued that sexual orientation is the result of environmental and genetic factors, and therefore cannot be willfully changed. -/TISG

groyn88 · November 19, 2019

https://mothership.sg/2019/11/section-377a-court-challenge-investigation-absurd-m-ravi/?fbclid=IwAR3fMqhyTaUP9YawK0BJBULe2jzgb81H6pchTl9LIsx26Ke4P9QvD-R4Q3A

Section 377A is ‘absurd’ as it is not enforced but police obligated to investigate allegations: M Ravi

This is compounded by how there are other legal provisions that impose an obligation to investigate cases under Section 377A.

Section 377A is an “absurd” and “arbitrary” law given that it is not enforced but the police are legally obligated to investigate allegations raised under it, as per Section 119 of the Penal Code.

This is because Section 119 makes it an offence for public servants not to take action against any offenders, or offenders who have the design to commit offences, such as those under Section 377A.

This was the argument laid out by lawyer M. Ravi, on behalf of retired GP and LGBT activist Roy Tan, on Nov. 18, in the third of three court challenges brought against Section 377A.

The 3rd legal team of 3 constitutional challenges against 377A has completed their arguments with Dr Roy Tan, one of the organizers of the very 1st Pink Dot SG!

We wish Roy, Lawyer M Ravi all the best! The government will now respond to the cases.

#Ready4Repeal

Police are also compelled under Section 424

In written submissions seen by Mothership, Ravi elaborated that apart from Section 119, the police are also legally compelled to investigate information of private consensual sex between adult males under Section 424 of the Criminal Procedure Code (CPC), where making a police report is mandatory.

He explained that this is due to Section 377A being covered as one of the offences under Chapter XVI of the penal code, which in turn is listed under Section 424.

As per Section 424 on the matter:

“Every person aware of the commission of or the intention of any other person to commit any arrestable offence punishable under Chapters…XVI of the Penal Code (Cap. 224) …shall…immediately give information to the officer in charge of the nearest police station or to a police officer of the commission or intention.”

Gay and bisexual men are also legally compelled to report their private acts

What’s more, Section 424 essentially imposes a mandatory obligation on all gay and bisexual men to report their private acts to the police, thereby making it “incongruous” with the current absence of proactive enforcement for Section 377A, Ravi further noted.

He highlighted that should the men fail to do so, Section 176 of the Penal Code stipulates a punishment of up to one month’s imprisonment or a fine of up to S$1,500, on the grounds of intentional omission.

As stated by Section 176:

“Whoever, being legally bound to give any notice or to furnish information on any subject to any public servant, as such, intentionally omits to give such notice or to furnish such information in the manner and at the time required by law, shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to one month, or with fine which may extend to $1,500, or with both.”
Retaining Section 377A means gay and bisexual men are doubly criminalised

As such, Ravi added, retaining Section 377A means that gay and bisexual men are doubly criminalised, first by committing acts prohibited via Section 377A, and second, by not reporting these acts to the police.

This also means that Section 377A, when read in conjunction with Section 424 of the CPC and Section 176 of the Penal Code, violates Article 9(1) of Singapore’s Constitution which guarantees a person of his life or personal liberty in accordance with the law.

This is because unpredictability and uncertainty about the law’s application is, in itself, a serious interference with the liberty of gay and bisexual men.

Ravi subsequently concluded:

“It is accordingly impossible for a gay or bisexual man in Singapore to predict when he may be investigated for engaging in consensual sexual activity with another man given the various sections highlighted above under the Criminal Procedure Code and Penal Code.”

Here’s what the other two challenges against Section 377A said:

Homosexuality not a choice but a result of biological causes: S’pore lawyers in court challenging 377A

There is also little evidence that social factors cause homosexuality.

Section 377A was introduced to curb colonial-era male prostitution: Lawyers

There was also an issue of British civil servants soliciting their services.

November 20, 2019

Constitution can change, we've seen it before.

groyn88 · November 20, 2019

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parliament-not-the-courts-should-decide-whether-to-repeal-section-377a-agc

Parliament, not the courts, should decide whether to repeal Section 377A: AGC

Rei Kurohi

SINGAPORE - The question of whether or not to repeal Section 377A of the Penal Code is a deeply divisive socio-political issue that should be decided by Parliament, not the judiciary, the Attorney-General's Chambers (AGC) has said.

In presenting its arguments in response to three cases now before the High Court challenging the constitutionality of Section 377A, the AGC noted that this was the same position adopted by the Court of Appeal in 2014.

In a 124-page written submission seen by The Straits Times on Wednesday, the AGC noted that in 2014, the Court of Appeal had dismissed a similar challenge.

It ruled then that the law, which criminalises acts of "gross indecency" between men, is consistent with the Constitution of Singapore.

The AGC said in its submission that the High Court is bound to follow the decisions of the Court of Appeal, which is the highest court in Singapore, and should therefore dismiss the three recent cases.

This was a key point presented by AGC's lawyers, Deputy Chief Counsel Hui Choon Kuen, Deputy Senior State Counsels Denise Wong and Jeremy Yeo, and State Counsel Jamie Pang, who concluded their submissions at the High Court on Wednesday (Nov 20).

In a media statement after the proceedings, the AGC said it has fully responded to the arguments raised by the applicants and will leave the court to make its decision.

The three cases for the repeal of Section 377A, brought by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) non-profit Oogachaga's former executive director Bryan Choong Chee Hong, disc jockey Johnson Ong Ming and LGBT activist and retired GP Roy Tan Seng Kee, were heard by Justice See Kee Oon in chambers last week and on Monday.

In its written submissions, the AGC said that the role of the courts is to apply the law, not to determine social policy.

It also noted that in other major jurisdictions such as Britain and Hong Kong where laws similar to Section 377A have been abolished, this was done by the legislature.

A repeal of Section 377A would involve complex social and political considerations.

These include religious sensitivities, conservative views on family and non-religious or non-traditional views that need to be finely balanced.

Parliament, which deals with complex socio-political matters, is better placed to handle such issues compared to the judiciary, which is constrained by more restrictive procedures, the AGC said.

It noted that the courts can only receive information that satisfies the rules of admission of evidence, but Parliament can consider information that does not, such as public sentiments.

Parliament would also be able to implement "change management" if it decides to repeal the law, such as engaging relevant communities and their leaders to explain the rationale for the change and assuage any unfounded concerns.

The AGC also stressed that foreign rulings, such as the Indian Supreme Court’s decision to strike down a similar law last year, are irrelevant as Singapore has different laws.

The Singapore Constitution, for example, does not set out rights to human dignity, sexual identity or privacy. It also does not prohibit discrimination on the grounds of sex or sexual orientation, the AGC said.

In its statement to the media, the AGC also addressed a point raised by one of the applicants.

On Monday, Mr M. Ravi of Carson Law Chambers, who represents Dr Roy Tan Seng Kee, had argued that other laws such as Section 424 of the Criminal Procedure Code (CPC) make it legally obligatory for anyone to report those who violate Section 377A.

This includes gay men themselves, their friends or family members, and their medical care providers.

Parliament's stance that Section 377A will not be proactively enforced leads to "an inconsistent and arbitrary application of criminal procedure", Mr Ravi had argued.

It is also incongruous with the mandatory obligation under Section 424 of the CPC, he said.

The AGC said in its statement: "The Attorney-General has already stated that where the conduct in question was between two consenting adults in a private place, the Public Prosecutor's position is that, absent other factors, prosecution under s 377A would not be in the public interest.

"It would naturally follow from this position that any prosecution under other provisions which would contradict the non-prosecution position of s 377A would likewise not be in the public interest."

November 21, 2019

Shouldn't this be merged with the 377A challenge thread? It's the same discussion...

November 21, 2019

17 hours ago, groyn88 said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parliament-not-the-courts-should-decide-whether-to-repeal-section-377a-agc

Parliament, not the courts, should decide whether to repeal Section 377A: AGC

Such argument is completely void of justice and law. If the parliament decided to approve man slaughtering or mass genocide the like of Hitler, can the Court remain blind to such injustice taking place daily, on the basis that the Parliament make the ultimate decision? What is the purpose of court? It existed to protect the people against rouge governement and to throw out unconstituional laws that exploits the weak in favour of the powerful. Can we have at least some basic understanding here set right, instead of pushing everything to parliament to make life easier for those who are supposed to be impartial and uphold the equality set out in our flag? Supereme court is supposed to be supreme above the government of the day and not subjected itself to be otherwise. What do you think;?

November 21, 2019

17 hours ago, groyn88 said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/parliament-not-the-courts-should-decide-whether-to-repeal-section-377a-agc

The Singapore Constitution, for example, does not set out rights to human dignity, sexual identity or privacy. It also does not prohibit discrimination on the grounds of sex or sexual orientation, the AGC said.

This part, is absurd.

Correct me if I have interpreted what the AGC was trying to say here, that DIGNITY is not important to any human beings and therefore the Singapore constitution can freely discriminate people of different gender or sexual orientation?

November 30, 2019

I guess this means that since adultery is legal, it means our society is OK with it, and that adultery is in line with our society’s norms and values? And also, adultery does not cause harm to anyone since it is legal, although it tears a family apart? I like their blind reasoning.

November 30, 2019

On 7/12/2019 at 10:32 AM, LeanMature said:

Yes, does not need. They are the majority in parliament.

Pap is more open to gays...ask the opposition if they are supportive or not, only CSJ is...TBC, Tean Lim, Tan Kin Lian, LTK, tan jay see, goh meng seng, lee li lian, desmond lim, mohd faizal manap, png eng huat and the rest...are they for man who like to screw man's assholes or mouthfuck or not

November 30, 2019

8 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

Pap is more open to gays...ask the opposition if they are supportive or not, only CSJ is...TBC, Tean Lim, Tan Kin Lian, LTK, tan jay see, goh meng seng, lee li lian, desmond lim, mohd faizal manap, png eng huat and the rest...are they for man who like to screw man's assholes or mouthfuck or not

Who told you PAP more opened to gays?? And who said TBC, Tean Lim, Tan Kin Lian, LTK, tan jay see, goh meng seng, lee li lian, desmond lim, mohd faizal manap, png eng huat and the rest got something against gays?? TS already started out to say your master claimed that 377a is here to stay already. KNN!

December 4, 2019

377A will be very hard and totally impossible to repeal. Main reason is, Singapore society is not ready to accept!

Homosexuality, Race and Religion are ultimate sensitive issues in Singapore political context. The opposition don't dare to mention.

If you see Singapore's social media videos proliferated (like the Taiwanese made [1][2][3]), that means, Singapore society is almost ready to accept!

GachiMuchi · March 30, 2020

High Court judge dismisses all three challenges to Section 377A

The men mounting challenges to Section 377A, and their lawyers. (Photos: Facebook/Remy Choo Zheng Xi, Ching S. Sia, Facebook/Roy Tan)

image.gif.7e0a9e8e2cd7f05e675a9e930ac982cd.gif

By Lydia Lam

30 Mar 2020 03:14PM(Updated: 30 Mar 2020 03:30PM)

SINGAPORE: Three men have failed in their challenges against Section 377A of the penal code, after a High Court judge dismissed their court actions against the law that criminalises sex between men on Monday (Mar 30).

Justice See Kee Oon will release his full judgment grounds at a later date, lawyers told CNA outside the chambers shortly after the decision.

According to Section 377A of the Penal Code, any man who commits any act of gross indecency with another man in public or in private can be jailed for up to two years. This extends to any man who abets such an act, procures or attempts to procure such an act.

The verdict was delivered in chambers, four months after arguments were made by the lawyers for the three men: Disc jockey Johnson Ong Ming, retired general practitioner Roy Tan Seng Kee and Bryan Choong Chee Hoong, the former executive director of LGBT non-profit organisation Oogachaga.

Mr Tan's lawyer, M Ravi, spoke to the media after the hearing, saying that he is working with a team to study the prospects of appeal.

He said the decision was "astounding" and "utterly shocking" because "you still criminalise these people".

Mr Ravi had argued on behalf of Mr Tan that the "absurd and arbitrary application" of the law is a violation of the Constitution as all gay and bisexual men are obligated to report their consensual private sexual acts to the police.

This is "incongruous with the so-called non-proactive enforcement of Section 377A", said Mr Ravi, who also argued that this law infringes the right to equality, life, personal liberty and expression.

Mr Choong's lawyers, led by Senior Counsel Harpreet Singh Nehal, had argued based on new historical material that was not available during a 2014 appeal.

They pointed to recently declassified documents demonstrating that the introduction of Section 377A in 1938 was to criminalise "rampant male prostitution" when Singapore was under British colonial rule.

Mr Ong's lawyers, helmed by Mr Eugene Thuraisingam, put forth expert scientific evidence on the nature of sexual orientation, arguing that homosexuals cannot wilfully change their orientation and that Section 377A is discriminatory and violates the Constitution.

The Attorney-General's Chambers had maintained that Section 377A serves a "legitimate and reasonable" state interest, "regardless of whether and how it is enforced".

They said the issue was "a deeply divisive socio-political" one that should instead be decided by Parliament, as the latter comprises democratically elected representatives accountable to Singaporeans.

feedersmiracle · March 30, 2020

Guess we can't put a ring on it.

groyn88 · March 30, 2020

March 30, 2020

Not surprising at all ....

And then · March 30, 2020

pathetic pathetic pathetic

groyn88 · March 30, 2020

You can download a PDF copy of today's High Court judgment dismissing the actions of Ong Ming Johnson, Choong Chee Hong and Tan Seng Kee against the constitutionality of Section 377A from this link:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1PbKqbAtfiGM5ZM0cG5qdUd-LCfrkAnvl

History of Section 377A:

https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.wikia.org/wiki/Section_377A_of_the_Penal_Code_(Singapore)

groyn88 · March 30, 2020

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/high-court-judge-dismisses-3-challenges-against-constitutionality-section-377a-penal-code

High Court judge dismisses 3 challenges to constitutionality of Section 377A
By Wong Pei Ting
From left: Dr Roy Tan, a retired general practitioner, Mr Bryan Choong, former executive director of advocacy group Oogachaga and Mr Johnson Ong, a disc jockey.
TODAY/Twitter
Published 30 March, 2020
SINGAPORE — Three legal challenges seeking to strike down Section 377A of the Penal Code — which criminalises consensual sex between men — were dismissed on Monday (March 30) by a High Court judge.
The judge ruled that the High Court was bound by the principles of legal precedent by the nation’s highest court, the Court of Appeal, in its reasoning and conclusions in a case in 2014, which was the last time a challenge was mounted to the legal provision.
In passing the judgement on Monday in a hearing that was closed to the public, High Court judge See Kee Oon said: “The Court of Appeal’s finding on the scope of Section 377A was necessary in order to make out its finding as to the purpose of Section 377A.” A summary of the judge’s findings was released to the media after the hearing.
Justice See went on: “In any case, the court had reached the same conclusion that the Court of Appeal arrived at, even after taking into account the additional material put forth by the plaintiffs.”
Justice See added that Section 377A could not be said to be redundant simply because the Government had taken a stance that it would not seek to enforce the provision.
“Statutory provisions serve an important role in reflecting public sentiment and beliefs. Section 377A, in particular, serves the purpose of safeguarding public morality by showing societal moral disapproval of male homosexual acts,” he said.
The civil suits, which were heard last November, were brought by three gay men — disc jockey Johnson Ong Ming, 43, former executive director of advocacy group Oogachang Bryan Choong, 42, and retired general practitioner Roy Tan Seng Kee, 61 — who challenged the constitutionality of Section 377A.
The cases were mounted following an Indian court’s decision to lift a ban on consensual gay sex in September 2018.
ARGUMENTS AND OUTCOME
Mr Ong’s lawyers — Mr Eugene Thuraisingam, Mr Suang Wijaya and Mr Johannes Hadi of law firm Eugene Thuraisingam LLP — had argued that Section 377A is “absurd, irrational and discriminatory” in criminalising the conduct of a person on the basis of his natural, unchangeable identity and for non-harmful private acts. They used expert evidence to present arguments that a person’s sexual orientation is innate and unchangeable.
But Justice See on Monday said there was no comprehensive scientific consensus that a person’s sexual orientation was biologically determined such that it is immutable.
Instead, the judge said scientific literature suggested that a person’s sexual orientation was determined by both genetic and environmental factors.
“The court is not the appropriate forum to seek a resolution of a scientific issue that remains controversial. This is in any event an extra-legal argument that does not come under the proper purview of the courts,” Justice See added.
Mr Choong’s lawyers — Mr Harpreet Nehal Singh, Mr Remy Choo Zheng Xi, Ms Priscilla Chia, Mr Wong Thai Yong and Mr Jordan Tan — urged the court to consider documents from the United Kingdom’s National Archives that were declassified between 2014 and 2016.
Using those, the lawyers argued that Section 377A’s original purpose was to stamp out male prostitution rather than discriminate against male homosexuals.
This was also an argument made by former chief justice and attorney-general Chan Sek Keong, who set the legal fraternity abuzz last October with a 72-page analysis arguing that Section 377A is unconstitutional.
To this, Justice See said that while the problem of male prostitution was “undoubtedly” the cause of much consternation among the British colonial administration, which tabled the law as part of an amendment bill in April 1938, there was no mention of male prostitution in any of the relevant legislative material.
“The fact that a precise legislative solution was not crafted to tackle the specific problem of male prostitution suggests that s 377A was intended for broader application,” he said.
Dr Tan’s lawyer, Mr M Ravi of Carson Law Chambers, argued that it remains “impossible” for a gay or bisexual man here to predict when he may be investigated although the Government had stated that Section 377A will not be proactively enforced.
The element of uncertainty remained because a policeman can be penalised for not acting on an arrestable act, he added, relying on provisions under Section 424 of the Criminal Procedure Code and Section 119 of the Penal Code.
Justice See, however, said that the Government’s decision not to proactively enforce Section 377A did not mean that the law was absurd or arbitrary, and arguments on this decision ought to be considered in an application for “administrative review” rather than “constitutional review”.
“The manner in which a provision is enforced, even if arbitrary, cannot, without more, result in the provision itself being rendered constitutional,” he said.
Lawyers representing the Government had argued that the Indian court’s decision is irrelevant to Singapore as the two countries take vastly different approaches to constitutional interpretation and review.
Among other arguments, they noted that unlike the Indian courts — which recognise concepts such as “transformative constitutionalism”, the “progressive realisation of rights” and the “doctrine of non-regression” — the Singapore courts do not view themselves as a driver of social change or transformation.
The team from the Attorney-General’s Chambers comprised Deputy Chief Counsel Hui Choon Kuen, Deputy Senior State Counsels Denise Wong and Jeremy Yeo and State Counsel Jamie Pang.
LAWYER M RAVI CRITICAL OF OUTCOME
Speaking to TODAY after Monday’s judgement, Mr Ravi criticised the outcome of the case in the light of the fact that the three challenges were mounted against the backdrop of “international momentum” in striking out what he characterised as “archaic” legislation.
Besides Mr Chan, those who contributed to the momentum included Ministry of Foreign Affairs Ambassador-at-Large Tommy Koh who openly encouraged the gay community in Singapore to bring a class action challenging Section 377A’s constitutionality, he pointed out.
“Most Commonwealth countries are already doing this. So, coming at this stage… the decision is astounding and shocking to the conscience,” said Mr Ravi.
He said his next step would be to study the prospects of an appeal, which could take the matter to the Court of Appeal if allowed to do so.
The other lawyers declined to comment for now.

single42 · March 30, 2020

The bigger the tree, the more wind it captures.. don't attract unnecssary issues till the day when that tree captures attention of wood cutters to bring down that tree, then birds living on that tree will be affected

groyn88 · March 31, 2020

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/all-three-men-to-appeal-dismissal-of-their-challenges-against-12592934

All three men to appeal dismissal of their challenges against Section 377A
By Lydia Lam
31 Mar 2020
SINGAPORE: The three men who mounted challenges against Section 377A, a law that criminalises sex between men, are disappointed by the High Court's dismissal of their cases and will be taking to the highest court in the land to appeal against the decision.
Disc jockey Johnson Ong Ming, retired general practitioner Roy Tan Seng Kee and Bryan Choong Chee Hoong, the former executive director of LGBT non-profit organisation Oogachaga, will each be appealing against the decision in the Court of Appeal, their lawyers told CNA.
Justice See Kee Oon on Monday rejected arguments put forth by the three men's lawyers that Section 377A is unconstitutional and upheld an earlier decision by the Court of Appeal.
According to Section 377A of the Penal Code, any man who commits any act of gross indecency with another man in public or in private can be jailed for up to two years. This extends to any man who abets such an act, procures or attempts to procure such an act.
Dr Tan's lawyer, M Ravi, has already filed a notice to appeal, in documents seen by CNA.
Dr Tan told CNA that he is disappointed that the High Court "has seen it fit to uphold the constitutionality of Section 377A, an unjust, archaic, colonial-era law which has no place in a modern, developed nation like Singapore".
He said the statute "discriminates against a significant demographic that contributes in no small measure to the country's economy, especially in the creative industries, and effectively renders them second-class citizens".
"The government has pledged not to enforce 377A but this unsatisfactory compromise is not only legally unsound but is also at odds with several important sections of the Criminal Procedure Code," he said.
Dr Tan said the existence of Section 377A "has manifold ramifications that adversely affect the lives of gay men in numerous areas such as positive media representation, censorship, workplace and housing discrimination, bullying in schools and recognition of their relationships".
He also referred to how several key figures such as former Chief Justice Chan Sek Keong, former Attorney-Generals Walter Woon and V K Rajah, Deputy Attorney-General Hri Kumar Nair and former law professor and ambassador Tommy Koh have called into question the constitutionality of Section 377A.
"Therefore, I feel that the High Court ruling is at odds with their expert legal opinion and merits re-examination," said Dr Tan.
DJ Johnson Ong Ming, whose challenge was heard jointly with Dr Tan, told CNA that the decision was "disappointing, but not entirely surprising, as Justice See mostly felt that he was bound by the decision of the Court of Appeal in 2014".
Mr Ong added that he has decided to appeal as "it will give the Court of Appeal an opportunity to reverse its decision and to overturn this bad law".
"The fact remains that 377A continues to inflict harm on LGBTQ Singaporeans every day that it remains in force," he said.
The third man who mounted a challenge, Bryan Choong Chee Hoong, said he was disappointed but was keeping his eyes "firmly on the road ahead".
His lawyer Remy Choo said they would be filing the appeal individually, but that it is likely to be heard jointly again.
In a statement after Monday's outcome, non-profit LGBTQ movement Pink Dot said it was disappointed that the constitutional challenges had been dismissed, "despite significant progress in the acceptance of LGBTQ people".

March 31, 2020

I have always been wondering about the religion background of those Kangaroos. If my suspicion is correct, it is pointless to continue fighting for LGBT even thought the cases are provened to be glaringly unfair to the LGBT community.

March 31, 2020

Singapore is an autocratic state with its state courts controlled by the Lee dynasty.

Pseudo-democracy pales in comparison to the UK and other first world, developed nations.

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