Covid Situation in SG discussion (compiled)

[Steve5380]

On 5/20/2022 at 11:02 PM, Guest Empty vessels loudest said:

once again, you make comments demonstrating your total ignorance of how people live in Singapore. You know how many people here have a big freezer or large amounts of space to store food? Do you know what cooking facilities people have?
 

It’s one thing not to know. It’s another to be so arrogant as to go wading into topics you know nothing about. Maybe think before typing on whether you have anything of value to add to any given topic? 

 

I know that in Singapore most people live in small flats.  And you don't need to stock up food for 6 months.  I merely comment that if necessary,  you could do it.  The cost of a freezer and the electricity to run it is not outlandish.  The space to store non perishable food of high density is not excessive. My own pantry is small, in one corner of my kitchen.  You don't need fancy cooking facilities:  a sink, a stove and perhaps a microwave is all you need.  We are talking about eventualities, not a normal way of life.

 

And if you are in Singapore,  to RIOT,  oh my god!  The space you will have in the jail cell is much less than what you have in your flat stocked up with food.

 

[sgmaven]

On 5/21/2022 at 10:06 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

I know that in Singapore most people live in small flats.  And you don't need to stock up food for 6 months.  I merely comment that if necessary,  you could do it.  The cost of a freezer and the electricity to run it is not outlandish.  The space to store non perishable food of high density is not excessive. My own pantry is small, in one corner of my kitchen.  You don't need fancy cooking facilities:  a sink, a stove and perhaps a microwave is all you need.  We are talking about eventualities, not a normal way of life.

 

And if you are in Singapore,  to RIOT,  oh my god!  The space you will have in the jail cell is much less than what you have in your flat stocked up with food.

 

This shows that you really don't understand the average Singaporean. Most Singaporeans are "addicted" to cheap cooked food available at hawker centres, etc. In fact, many Singaporean families no longer cook their own meals (not the most healthy approach, I know), choosing instead to eat-out or take-away. Even while eating dinner at home, many even do a long-term arrangement with a caterer to provide the dinner.

 

Also, many Singaporeans don't even know how to cook. This is encouraged by the pervasive availability of cheap cooked food. In fact, I know people who have apartments that do not even have a stove or microwave. Many apartments (smaller ones) have minimal cooking facilities.

 

People are generally set in their ways, and will not just change their habits if the government says so. In fact, the pandemic and the initial lockdown hit many households very hard, because it forced them to really eat at home. So, I am serious when I say the people would riot if they were forced to eat nothing but canned food.

[sgmaven]

It is much more difficult to keep COVID variants from entering the country, trying to maintain a ZERO policy, than to control the number of infections. Just look at the recent problems in China!

 

For as long as the transport sector is porous, there will always be risks of importation of the virus. There is no way to cut this risk to zero, unless you impose quarantines for each person involved - not possible for people who work to transport items on a daily basis. So, as long as the risk of transmission exists, you will never be able to say you can totally live without the spectre of COVID.

 

It is easy to say that you seal up the country. But Singapore is far too dependent on other countries for supplies - food, medical supplies, oil, and other raw materials. Unfortunately, Singapore does not have a hinterland that enables us to be able to be totally self-sufficient (or even mostly). So, for as long as we remain that way, we have no choice but to operate with a porous border.

 

It is also easy for people to say to stop all foreign workers from entering the country. But then, who is going to build the HDB flats that people are impatiently waiting for their TOP and the handover of keys? Who is going to sweep the streets and collect the rubbish? You have to realise that Singaporeans just don't want these jobs! Locking these foreign workers inside their crowded dormitories and not allowing them to visit their home countries for as long as you want to seal Singapore up is also not practical.

 

With these porous borders, then there will always be a risk of importation of new variants.

 

Stop tourist arrivals? Obviously, some people do not realise the dependence of our country on tourism. 2019 tourism receipts in Singapore was $27.7 Billion, and fell to a mere $1.9 Billion in 2021. In percentage terms, tourism accounted for more than 10% of GDP in 2019. How would that sector weather through continued border closures?

[Guest Correct]

On 5/22/2022 at 4:40 PM, sgmaven said:

It is much more difficult to keep COVID variants from entering the country, trying to maintain a ZERO policy, than to control the number of infections. Just look at the recent problems in China!

 

For as long as the transport sector is porous, there will always be risks of importation of the virus. There is no way to cut this risk to zero, unless you impose quarantines for each person involved - not possible for people who work to transport items on a daily basis. So, as long as the risk of transmission exists, you will never be able to say you can totally live without the spectre of COVID.

 

It is easy to say that you seal up the country. But Singapore is far too dependent on other countries for supplies - food, medical supplies, oil, and other raw materials. Unfortunately, Singapore does not have a hinterland that enables us to be able to be totally self-sufficient (or even mostly). So, for as long as we remain that way, we have no choice but to operate with a porous border.

 

It is also easy for people to say to stop all foreign workers from entering the country. But then, who is going to build the HDB flats that people are impatiently waiting for their TOP and the handover of keys? Who is going to sweep the streets and collect the rubbish? You have to realise that Singaporeans just don't want these jobs! Locking these foreign workers inside their crowded dormitories and not allowing them to visit their home countries for as long as you want to seal Singapore up is also not practical.

 

With these porous borders, then there will always be a risk of importation of new variants.

 

Stop tourist arrivals? Obviously, some people do not realise the dependence of our country on tourism. 2019 tourism receipts in Singapore was $27.7 Billion, and fell to a mere $1.9 Billion in 2021. In percentage terms, tourism accounted for more than 10% of GDP in 2019. How would that sector weather through continued border closures?

Unfortunately, the person you are responding to is not interested in facts. They just want to complain about foreigners, for whatever reason.

 

If they weren’t using covid as the reason for their complaints, it would just be something else. 

[Steve5380]

On 5/22/2022 at 3:21 AM, sgmaven said:

This shows that you really don't understand the average Singaporean. Most Singaporeans are "addicted" to cheap cooked food available at hawker centres, etc. In fact, many Singaporean families no longer cook their own meals (not the most healthy approach, I know), choosing instead to eat-out or take-away. Even while eating dinner at home, many even do a long-term arrangement with a caterer to provide the dinner.

 

Also, many Singaporeans don't even know how to cook. This is encouraged by the pervasive availability of cheap cooked food. In fact, I know people who have apartments that do not even have a stove or microwave. Many apartments (smaller ones) have minimal cooking facilities.

 

People are generally set in their ways, and will not just change their habits if the government says so. In fact, the pandemic and the initial lockdown hit many households very hard, because it forced them to really eat at home. So, I am serious when I say the people would riot if they were forced to eat nothing but canned food.

 

Well... I can only make suggestions,  I cannot change people.  As long is it is their choice they should live like they please.

 

And it is a choice.  There are small electric appliances that can allow them to cook, as long as they also have a sink.  And a small microwave is not a big acquisition.  You know that a microwave is the ideal way to steam vegetables?

 

Now I understand why I could not find big supermarkets in Singapore.  All the ones I saw there could fit into one of the three I have at walking distance from home.   If the pandemic forced people to cook at home, hopefully some will continue to do so.  Learning to cook is not difficult, especially  by having the Internet.

[sgmaven]

On 5/22/2022 at 9:25 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

Well... I can only make suggestions,  I cannot change people.  As long is it is their choice they should live like they please.

 

And it is a choice.  There are small electric appliances that can allow them to cook, as long as they also have a sink.  And a small microwave is not a big acquisition.  You know that a microwave is the ideal way to steam vegetables?

 

Now I understand why I could not find big supermarkets in Singapore.  All the ones I saw there could fit into one of the three I have at walking distance from home.   If the pandemic forced people to cook at home, hopefully some will continue to do so.  Learning to cook is not difficult, especially  by having the Internet.

Well, I doubt people will continue to cook at home. Now that the hawker centres are opened once again, people will be exposed to their "opiate" once again. I actually think that Singapore will lose most of its culinary heritage, as more and more people eat from places that manufacture food on an industrial scale. We are losing so much of hawker traditions even. Hardly anyone actually roasts their own duck at stalls that sell Cantonese style Roast Duck, instead buying it from a factory kitchen. The same for the Yong Tao Fu stalls (vegetables stuffed with minced fish).

 

You can see the trend even in the design of apartments and HDB flats. The area dedicated to kitchens have shrunken through the years. Some of the newer apartments only have pitiful excuses for kitchens, given that they are just a counter top next to the entrance of the flat. These will probably be serviceable for making pot noodles, but little else.

[Steve5380]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:15 AM, sgmaven said:

 

You can see the trend even in the design of apartments and HDB flats. The area dedicated to kitchens have shrunken through the years. Some of the newer apartments only have pitiful excuses for kitchens, given that they are just a counter top next to the entrance of the flat. These will probably be serviceable for making pot noodles, but little else.

 

 

LOL!  Pot noodles.  So if one wants to live on a diet of pot noodles (!!) one needs hot water.  So it's natural to place a microwave on the counter top.  One can cook full meals in the microwave.  I use my microwave a dozen times a day. I found a video of a one-room HDB flat:

 

 

A little messy I have to say,  but enough room to live with comfort (with fewer stuff).  The kitchen I would rate as "sufficient", although... where is the microwave??

 

During my years in college I lived in a one-room apartment I owned, not bigger than this one,  and I cooked ALL my meals,  to save money in those days.  But... NO CAT!   Instead of a cat,  I had an upright piano in there, ha ha.

 

I have more respect for people who make a comfortable living place in a one-room apartment than I have for my neighbors who need a 4000 square feet two-story house to be satisfied, and still not happy.  

[Guest Guest]

 

On 5/22/2022 at 4:40 PM, sgmaven said:

 

For as long as the transport sector is porous, there will always be risks of importation of the virus. There is no way to cut this risk to zero, unless you impose quarantines for each person involved - not possible for people who work to transport items on a daily basis. So, as long as the risk of transmission exists, you will never be able to say you can totally live without the spectre of COVID.

 

It is easy to say that you seal up the country. But Singapore is far too dependent on other countries for supplies - food, medical supplies, oil, and other raw materials. Unfortunately, Singapore does not have a hinterland that enables us to be able to be totally self-sufficient (or even mostly). So, for as long as we remain that way, we have no choice but to operate with a porous border.

 

It is also easy for people to say to stop all foreign workers from entering the country. But then, who is going to build the HDB flats that people are impatiently waiting for their TOP and the handover of keys? Who is going to sweep the streets and collect the rubbish? You have to realise that Singaporeans just don't want these jobs! Locking these foreign workers inside their crowded dormitories and not allowing them to visit their home countries for as long as you want to seal Singapore up is also not practical.

 

With these porous borders, then there will always be a risk of importation of new variants.

 

Stop tourist arrivals? Obviously, some people do not realise the dependence of our country on tourism. 2019 tourism receipts in Singapore was $27.7 Billion, and fell to a mere $1.9 Billion in 2021. In percentage terms, tourism accounted for more than 10% of GDP in 2019. How would that sector weather through continued border closures?

 

 

Guess what? During the times Singapore had very strict controls at all those "porous" borders, nobody died of starvation, and nobody started living in the streets of Singapore. So please don't use "porous" transportation as your lame excuse to reopen the economy to allow food to come in, foreign workers to come in, and also tourists like the one below to come in: 

 

https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/281386556_3246188778999240_8246636100357211931_n.mp4?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=985c63&efg=eyJybHIiOjQwOCwicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoic3ZlX3NkIn0%3D&_nc_ohc=Wzb3m_DZ9D8AX-2r_ez&rl=408&vabr=227&_nc_ht=scontent-tpe1-1.xx&oh=00_AT90arsYFlbUODMQ_yc0qLM5BSlA4MXWjax7Lh7GErLesw&oe=628B05BD 

 

 

Anyone who believes that "Singapore is far too dependent on other countries for supplies - food, medical supplies, oil, and other raw materials" can even be close to an excuse to re-open the entire economy for the entire world to come unfettered and unchecked, will believe anything and everything that anyone say.   

 

 

 

On 5/22/2022 at 4:40 PM, sgmaven said:

It is much more difficult to keep COVID variants from entering the country, trying to maintain a ZERO policy, than to control the number of infections. Just look at the recent problems in China!

 

People harping on the ills of "zero-COVID policy" have completely forgotten how COVID became a worldwide pandemic, with all the ill-effects because of how Wuhan failed to contain its "Wuhan virus" and let it spread to the rest of whole wide world in their version of their "pandemic living" at the beginning.

 

Human beings never learn. Perhaps, the best way out is for human beings to re-learn their lessons over and over again, and let the Indians start their rhetoric about the "Singapore variant", which might just turned out to be a deadlier and more transmissible one. Or perhaps, Singapore can now become the new "monkey pox" hub, just like how Wuhan became the COVID hub at the beginning (even while China was denying that Wuhan was the point of origin)

 

I guess that is what everyone who supports the unchecked and unfettered re-opening of the economy wants, right? Let's see if Singapore has as much finances as the Chinese to go sweep the entire issue under the carpet when that happens. 

[sgmaven]

It is quite okay to operate a zero COVID policy, if you have just a handful of infections locally. In that case, you can do ring-fencing, contact tracing and quarantine quite effectively. Look at the current situation. We are having thousands of new cases a day on our shores. If you were to insist on quarantining/isolating close contacts you would probably have to isolate a significant portion of the population (most people have more than a thousand close contacts a day).

 

Some people have also totally forgotten how the virus and its symptoms have evolved. Fever used to be a primary symptom, and an elevated body temperature is relatively easy to detect. Remember all those temperature scanners?

 

Even during the strictest of measures taken by the Singapore government, we never operated a sealed country, due to our need for the importation of food. In fact, food supply was so erratic during the early days of the pandemic, that MTI under Mr Chan Chun Sing worked overtime to source food supplies from all over the world, stockpiling in a food reserve so as to ensure we did not starve. I think some have forgotten the run on the supermarkets, the empty shelves, and the rationing of certain items, during the early days of the pandemic. When Malaysia unilaterally declared it was closing its borders in 2020, Mr Lee Hsien Loong had made sure that goods deliveries were still permitted. SCMP reported then that Singapore imports some 90% of its food from global sources. Perhaps some who don't shop for food didn't realise how many items had intermittent supply, and substitutes were used from other countries (since many countries closed their borders).

 

While some people still seem to want some form of lock down, and sealing of the country. I think the majority would balk at the idea. Look at the number of Singaporeans who have gone on vacations overseas since we relaxed quarantine/testing measures! Also, I wonder how some people are going to force all the countries to adopt ZERO-COVID policies, now that most have pivoted to a strategy of living with the virus?

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Wow! This is not even the peak of the next wave yet .... 

 

Singapore reports youngest ever COVID fatality, 1.5-year-old baby boy (msn.com)

 

Singapore reports youngest ever COVID fatality, 1.5-year-old baby boy

 

SINGAPORE — A one-and-a-half-year-old Singaporean boy infected with COVID-19 has died, making him the youngest-ever fatality from the virus in Singapore.

 

The cause of his death was encephalitis – inflammation of the brain – due to the novel coronavirus as well as the respiratory syncytial virus and enterovirus, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said on Monday (27 June). The latter two viruses are common in the general population.

 

The boy was the first COVID-19 patient aged below 12 to die from the virus here, MOH said, adding that he had no other past medical history and was previously well.

 

He had a high fever and recurrent seizures, with a subsequent drop in consciousness, when he was brought to KK Women’s and Children’s Hospital (KKH) Children’s Emergency Department on the night of 21 June.

 

The boy was admitted to the children’s intensive care unit in critical condition the following day and was diagnosed with severe meningoencephalitis – inflammation of the brain – and its surrounding protective membranes.

 

He tested positive on a polymerase chain reaction test for COVID-19 and also for the rhinovirus/enterovirus and respiratory syncytial virus, MOH said.

 

"COVID-19 can result in severe disease, even in children and those without pre-existing medical conditions. Vaccination substantially reduces the likelihood of severe disease when one is infected," according to MOH.

 

All children aged 5 to 11, especially those with underlying chronic medical conditions, should be vaccinated with the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, MOH advised.

 

Along with the Health Sciences Authority and the expert committee on COVID-19 vaccination, MOH said it will study the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines that have been formulated for young children aged under five once manufacturers submit documents for evaluation.

 

"MOH extends our deepest condolences to the patient’s family. We understand that KKH is in contact with the family to provide the necessary support," it added.

 

Singapore reported 5,309 new COVID-19 cases on Monday, up from 5,116 a day before, according to MOH's website.

Its weekly COVID-19 infection growth rate also rose to 1.56 on Monday from 1.52 on Sunday.

 

The rate refers to the ratio of community cases for the past week over the week before, where a figure of more than one means that the number of new weekly cases is increasing.

 

To date, 1,413,667 COVID-19 cases have been recorded in Singapore, with 1,409 deaths due to the disease.

 

About 45 per cent of the COVID-19 cases in the community in the past week were cases with Omicron BA.4 and BA.5 subvariants, up from 30 per cent the week before.

 

Singapore is expected to face its next wave of Omicron infections as early as July or August, said Health Minister Ong Ye Kung early this month.

 

As of Sunday, 92 per cent of the city-state's total population had completed their full COVID-19 vaccine regimen, while 78 per cent had received their booster shots.

 

[Guest Guest]

We should never have opened up, just open up to make dollars and risked the lives of millions of people. See China, they are still having strict lockdowns when there is a spike in covid cases, definitely, there is something that they know about the covid.we should learn from them

[Guest Yawn]

On 6/28/2022 at 5:29 PM, Guest Guest said:

We should never have opened up, just open up to make dollars and risked the lives of millions of people. See China, they are still having strict lockdowns when there is a spike in covid cases, definitely, there is something that they know about the covid.we should learn from them

🥱 

[Guest Guest]

On 6/28/2022 at 5:36 PM, Guest Yawn said:

🥱

still want to yawn, even after an innocent toddler's death?

[singalion]

To close down the country is pathetic and totally unrealistic.

 

There are lorry drivers from Malaysia bringing you the food and veggies from Malaysia (maybe not so much chicken at the moment, ...). Ships are docking at the harbour, cargo is handled, planes bring urgently required medicine  etc etc... These people come in contact with Singaporeans also...

 

There was even a case from someone who worked on a ship repair and came back with an infection...

 

Covid can sneak in at many areas... maybe even from that wild boar that swam over from JB to Singapore...

 

I also very much dislike this view "that everything bad always comes from foreigners" to Singapore.

When in reality you closed all the eyes of all the returning Singaporeans who were overseas, went overseas... since January 2020...

Such is on a very restricted and limited view to think that a virus can't sneak in. Same it also shows an attitude of xenophobia...

 

Take North Korea, one of the most isolated countries... Covid still found it's way to North Korea...

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by singalion

[singalion]

Wow. sudden spike...

 

But in Europe is running a new wave with these Omicron B.4 and B.5 variants.

 

I read that these variants have nothing to do actually with the South African Omicron but came about from different areas and are mutations on their own...

 

 

Singapore reports 11,504 new COVID-19 cases, highest daily number of infections in more than 3 months

28 Jun 2022 09:27PM

 

SINGAPORE: Singapore reported 11,504 new COVID-19 cases as of noon on Tuesday (Jun 28), comprising 10,732 local infections and 772 imported cases. 

There was one fatality, taking the death toll from coronavirus complications to 1,410.

 

 

[sgmaven]

When there are more than 11,000 NEW cases of COVID-19 on Tuesday, 28 June, then there is no point shutting any border. This translates into 2 NEW cases for every 1000 people in Singapore. If you then the active cases (those currently infected), which is going to rise over the next few days, you are talking about a significant percentage of people. It is far more prudent to get people to be less nonchalant about mask-wearing and social distancing.

 

Get the local community infections down to double digits, before even thinking about closing borders. That said, as @singalionhas stated, Singapore is far too dependent on food and other imports to really close our borders. As long as these "international transportation and logistics" workers continue to come into Singapore, there is no way to guarantee that any new strains or variants will enter our shores. That said, with high local community infections, who is to say that Singapore does not spawn new variants?

[Guest Guest]

Wear mask in places when there are many people, reduce social gathering and avoid going to crowded places might help in reducing cases.

[Guest Lawrence]

Can you visit a friend's house if he/she is not there?

 

2 scenarios
1. friend is overseas "I think I left my lights on, can you check for me"
2. friend is at work (not at home), in Singapore; "can you check, I left the thermostat on"

[Guest Guest]

Anyone kena Covid 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, …… time already? 😱😱

 

😷😷

[Guest Guest]

Will we see any tightening measures by the MTF anytime soon?

[Guest Guest]

 

On 6/28/2022 at 9:47 PM, singalion said:

To close down the country is pathetic and totally unrealistic.

 

There are lorry drivers from Malaysia bringing you the food and veggies from Malaysia (maybe not so much chicken at the moment, ...). Ships are docking at the harbour, cargo is handled, planes bring urgently required medicine  etc etc... These people come in contact with Singaporeans also...

 

There was even a case from someone who worked on a ship repair and came back with an infection...

 

Covid can sneak in at many areas... maybe even from that wild boar that swam over from JB to Singapore...

 

I also very much dislike this view "that everything bad always comes from foreigners" to Singapore.

When in reality you closed all the eyes of all the returning Singaporeans who were overseas, went overseas... since January 2020...

Such is on a very restricted and limited view to think that a virus can't sneak in. Same it also shows an attitude of xenophobia...

 

Take North Korea, one of the most isolated countries... Covid still found it's way to North Korea...

 

 

On 6/28/2022 at 9:57 PM, sgmaven said:

When there are more than 11,000 NEW cases of COVID-19 on Tuesday, 28 June, then there is no point shutting any border. This translates into 2 NEW cases for every 1000 people in Singapore. If you then the active cases (those currently infected), which is going to rise over the next few days, you are talking about a significant percentage of people. It is far more prudent to get people to be less nonchalant about mask-wearing and social distancing.

 

Get the local community infections down to double digits, before even thinking about closing borders. That said, as @singalionhas stated, Singapore is far too dependent on food and other imports to really close our borders. As long as these "international transportation and logistics" workers continue to come into Singapore, there is no way to guarantee that any new strains or variants will enter our shores. That said, with high local community infections, who is to say that Singapore does not spawn new variants?

 

It is obvious that people who wants to keep the borders free-flow and unashamedly opened by using all kinds of motherhood excuses, such as threats to the "supply chain" and "it is meaningless to shut it down cos of the threat of the latest 11k new cases is already here", are really those who care more for themselves rather than the welfare of the entire country's citizens, including the old and vulnerable, and as seen in the most recent case, the young and weak. 

 

COVID might have found its way into the most restricted country, but that does not mean that the country should let it run around free and loose like the way it is doing so right now. 

[lonelyglobe]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:55 PM, Guest Guest said:

Will we see any tightening measures by the MTF anytime soon?

Nope,  we have progress from prevention stage in 2020 when there are no vaccination and medication. Then move on to preparation stage in 2021 when we start mass vaccination, start VTL and also brain washing that covid is just like common flu. So 2022 will be pushing stage,  push for opening and economy growth while in the process also push up the figures. Look at it on the bright side,  if all 5 million kena already, then covid is "nothing" of a concern anymore in SG. 

[Guest Green]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:35 PM, Guest Lawrence said:

Can you visit a friend's house if he/she is not there?

 

2 scenarios
1. friend is overseas "I think I left my lights on, can you check for me"
2. friend is at work (not at home), in Singapore; "can you check, I left the thermostat on"

Another friend is oversea “My just married husband is lonely at home, can you accompany him when I’m away”

 

Your answer will be SURE CAN VISIT

[sgmaven]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:56 PM, Guest Guest said:

It is obvious that people who wants to keep the borders free-flow and unashamedly opened by using all kinds of motherhood excuses, such as threats to the "supply chain" and "it is meaningless to shut it down cos of the threat of the latest 11k new cases is already here", are really those who care more for themselves rather than the welfare of the entire country's citizens, including the old and vulnerable, and as seen in the most recent case, the young and weak. 

 

COVID might have found its way into the most restricted country, but that does not mean that the country should let it run around free and loose like the way it is doing so right now. 

Can you suggest how our country will survive if we close our borders? This means no more food enters our country, and we have to survive on what we produce. How long do you think we will survive?

 

If you point to the supply of food in our National Stockpile, then that is a finite resource that will be depleted one day. Also, not everything can be substituted with canned and frozen items. Just think about the "panic" that occurred when Malaysia cut its supply of fresh chickens. That wasn't even the whole supply of chickens, since we import lots of frozen chicken from the US, Brazil, etc. I wonder what your parents will say when there are no fresh vegetables to buy in the markets and supermarkets, and only canned and frozen vegetables are available...

 

That is not to mention other essential supplies, such as medicines, that we depend on.

[sgmaven]

While some people keep saying that we should close our borders to control the spread of COVID-19, then what about the 11,000 new cases reported just yesterday? These did not spontaneously occur, or were they visitors or workers from other countries. They are community cases! While closing borders may halt further introduction of new variants, it has tremendous economic cost. Something that does not make sense, considering that some 0.2% of the population were newly-diagnosed with COVID-19 just yesterday! I think you should fear your neighbours passing you COVID-19, rather than a visitor from overseas! This will be the case for as long as community infections are so high.

 

At the moment the government has stated that anyone testing positive for COVID-19 should isolate for a minimum of 72 hours. In the past 3 days (72 hours), Singapore has reported more than 21,000 COVID-19 cases. Looking at how many cases there are (and it is expected to rise over the next few days), and discounting for the fact that some people refuse to get tested despite exhibiting symptoms and some a purely asymptomatic carriers, it is likely that almost every HDB block or block in a condo harbours at least an active COVID-19 case.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 6/29/2022 at 3:12 AM, sgmaven said:

Can you suggest how our country will survive if we close our borders? This means no more food enters our country, and we have to survive on what we produce. How long do you think we will survive?

 

If you point to the supply of food in our National Stockpile, then that is a finite resource that will be depleted one day. Also, not everything can be substituted with canned and frozen items. Just think about the "panic" that occurred when Malaysia cut its supply of fresh chickens. That wasn't even the whole supply of chickens, since we import lots of frozen chicken from the US, Brazil, etc. I wonder what your parents will say when there are no fresh vegetables to buy in the markets and supermarkets, and only canned and frozen vegetables are available...

 

That is not to mention other essential supplies, such as medicines, that we depend on.

 

Did the country die when it closed in the past? When the country closed it borders the last time, did that mean we became a recluse like North Korea? When the country closed it borders the last time, did the food supply got cut off? 

 

There you go! Those are the answers to your fear-mongering questions. 

 

 

On 6/29/2022 at 3:32 AM, sgmaven said:

While closing borders may halt further introduction of new variants, it has tremendous economic cost.

 

 

 

It's all about the money, isn't it?

[singalion]

On 6/29/2022 at 3:12 AM, sgmaven said:

Can you suggest how our country will survive if we close our borders? This means no more food enters our country, and we have to survive on what we produce. How long do you think we will survive?

 

In particular, after in Singapore no more Durian growing on trees and also the coconut tree no longer carry coconuts... 🤣

 

I really admire your patience to explain such basics to locals with seemingly the thinking of a kampong chicken...

 

😆

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by singalion

[singalion]

On 6/29/2022 at 3:12 AM, sgmaven said:

Can you suggest how our country will survive if we close our borders? This means no more food enters our country, and we have to survive on what we produce. How long do you think we will survive?

 

If you point to the supply of food in our National Stockpile, then that is a finite resource that will be depleted one day. Also, not everything can be substituted with canned and frozen items. Just think about the "panic" that occurred when Malaysia cut its supply of fresh chickens. That wasn't even the whole supply of chickens, since we import lots of frozen chicken from the US, Brazil, etc. I wonder what your parents will say when there are no fresh vegetables to buy in the markets and supermarkets, and only canned and frozen vegetables are available...

 

That is not to mention other essential supplies, such as medicines, that we depend on.

 

Look, you would still need food imports, the canned food doesn't roll alone from the manufacturing site to the supermarket in Singapore...

 

[singalion]

Those taking the People's Rep of China as a good example... 

Did this country , having imposed strict immigration rules for entry manage to contain the virus?

 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 6/29/2022 at 9:48 AM, singalion said:

Those taking the People's Rep of China as a good example... 

Did this country , having imposed strict immigration rules for entry manage to contain the virus?

 

 

 

Yes, it could have been far worse.

 

Remember how the pandemic started in Wuhan and spread throughout the place and then the entire planet? Have you forgotten that so quickly already? Selective amnesia, huh? Or is it just that some people like you will NEVER learn? 

[Guest Yawn]

On 6/28/2022 at 5:39 PM, Guest Guest said:

still want to yawn, even after an innocent toddler's death?

yawning at you for being moronic and boring. Lethal combination. 

[singalion]

 

Surely, many things are about money.

 

Those asking for complete border closures, I wonder whether they spent any thought, who pays the lightning and lifts and corridor cleaning in front of their HDB flats? This all comes from alone at no cost?

 

And are these people self reliant, grow their own vegetables in their backyard, produce milk from soy beans grown in their flat? Are you also? Do you generate your own water and electricity also?

 

And how about the people that built their life and income around hospitality and tourism? They should all go bankrupt and switch career into home farming is it ?

 

For years, since BW is operating this forum you bore us with your unrealistic proposals and lunatic posts.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

On 6/29/2022 at 12:19 PM, singalion said:

 

Surely, many things are about money.

 

Those asking for complete border closures, I wonder whether they spent any thought, who pays the lightning and lifts and corridor cleaning in front of their HDB flats? This all comes from alone at no cost?

 

And are these people self reliant, grow their own vegetables in their backyard, produce milk from soy beans grown in their flat? Are you also? Do you generate your own water and electricity also?

 

And how about the people that built their life and income around hospitality and tourism? They should all go bankrupt and switch career into home farming is it ?

 

For years, since BW is operating this forum you bore us with your unrealistic proposals and lunatic posts.

 

Hmmmm .. so who DID pay for those lightning and lifts and corridor cleaning in front of their HDB flats during the previous lockdown? Did anyone need to resort to growing their own vegetables in their backyard, and producing milk from soy beans grown in their flat during the last lockdown? Why worry about people that built their life and income around hospitality and tourism now, when you were never worried about the livelihood of Singaporeans in general during normal times? 

 

Nobody is asking to convert Singapore into North Korea. This is just another one of your fear-mongering red herring to make other people frightened enough to serve your own selfish purposes, and this is done at the welfare of Singaporeans in general. It is like telling people that Singapore will not be able to survive without trash like you around.

 

The truth remains: one way or another, the country will survive with or without foreign T-R-A-S-H like you.   

[singalion]

There are many Singaporeans here at BW who confirm that Singapore wouldn't be what it is without Foreigners.

 

 

Will  you empty your own HDB trash bin, clean the corridors and build new HDBs?

[singalion]

You were the one who had been asking to fully close borders to foreigners.

 

To me this equates to the situation in North Korea...

 

 

 

 

Anyhow in your flawed thinking you always forget those Singaporeans who are currently overseas and intend to return to Singapore, because their studies or work term ended or due to other reasons...

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by singalion

[sgmaven]

On 6/29/2022 at 9:17 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

Did the country die when it closed in the past? When the country closed it borders the last time, did that mean we became a recluse like North Korea? When the country closed it borders the last time, did the food supply got cut off? 

 

There you go! Those are the answers to your fear-mongering questions.

You didn't even realise that the borders were not totally closed during the pandemic. They were still open to food imports from Malaysia. There was a special arrangement between Malaysia and Singapore to allow for truck drivers delivering food to enter the country... You obviously didn't check your facts!

[Guest Guest]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:22 PM, sgmaven said:

You didn't even realise that the borders were not totally closed during the pandemic. They were still open to food imports from Malaysia. There was a special arrangement between Malaysia and Singapore to allow for truck drivers delivering food to enter the country... You obviously didn't check your facts!

 

Hahahaha! So who was the one who tried to scare people about the lack of food supplies when the solution of lockign down the country was first mentioned? 

 

You obviously didn't check your posts!

[sgmaven]

On 6/29/2022 at 1:10 PM, Guest Guest said:

Hmmmm .. so who DID pay for those lightning and lifts and corridor cleaning in front of their HDB flats during the previous lockdown? Did anyone need to resort to growing their own vegetables in their backyard, and producing milk from soy beans grown in their flat during the last lockdown? Why worry about people that built their life and income around hospitality and tourism now, when you were never worried about the livelihood of Singaporeans in general during normal times?

Someone conveniently forgot that Singapore had to dig into its reserves for the first time during the pandemic. Don't forget that even with the lockdown in place, Singapore was still engaged in imports and exports. You might have been trapped in your flat, but DHL, UPS & Fedex were still flying in and out, and the truck drivers from Malaysia delivering live chickens to be culled were still driving in. That is something you choose to forget. The shortages at that stage were more the impact of panic-buying (remember the run on toilet paper?) and because supply chains were cut from many countries stopping the export of food supplies.

 

Do you think it is just the tourism and hospitality sector that was impacted by the lockdown? I think you have your head firmly planted in the ground! Many other sectors like F&B and retail also suffered badly. If you bother to look at the number of restaurants and eateries that had to close their business as a result of the pandemic regulations, you will know that the impact was very far-reaching.

[sgmaven]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:28 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Hahahaha! So who was the one who tried to scare people about the lack of food supplies when the solution of lockign down the country was first mentioned? 

 

You obviously didn't check your posts!

You were the one to suggest the total lockdown, which means no import of food. If people still come into Singapore for food deliveries, how do you ensure that no new cases enter Singapore in the process?

[sgmaven]

On 6/29/2022 at 1:10 PM, Guest Guest said:

The truth remains: one way or another, the country will survive with or without foreign T-R-A-S-H like you.   

I am ashamed of Singaporeans who call other people such things, just because they do not agree with their POV. Keep things civil.

 

Do realise that Singapore is ADDICTED to foreign labour. We cannot survive without foreigners, because there are so many jobs that Singaporeans do not want to do. Have you seen road sweepers and garbage collectors who are Singaporeans? Not many, I bet. Or construction workers, building our HDB flats? What about the households that "cannot live without" their domestic helper? Unless you and your family members are willing to do such jobs, I think you will understand this ADDICTION. It is not just the highly-paid jobs that have expats. Foreign workers come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, and bring diversity to our nation. Studies have repeatedly shown that population diversity (mix of migrants) lead to increased creativity and innovation.

[Guest Guest]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:33 PM, sgmaven said:

You were the one to suggest the total lockdown, which means no import of food. If people still come into Singapore for food deliveries, how do you ensure that no new cases enter Singapore in the process?

 

Who asked for total lockdown to the extent that there is no import of food? Please show us the post. 

[lonelyglobe]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:32 PM, sgmaven said:

 If you bother to look at the number of restaurants and eateries that had to close their business as a result of the pandemic regulations, you will know that the impact was very far-reaching.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/firms-set-closed-down-covid-19-pandemic-hit-2288481

[sgmaven]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:59 PM, lonelyglobe said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/firms-set-closed-down-covid-19-pandemic-hit-2288481

Do you really believe the spin doctors on this one? Honestly, just walking around the neighbourhoods and in malls, you will see the number of units vacated by businesses. Yes, some new tenants are willing to take up the leases of places, but many are the large chain stores or franchised restaurants.

[sgmaven]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:47 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Who asked for total lockdown to the extent that there is no import of food? Please show us the post. 

If you are going to allow for the importation of essentials like food, how to you guarantee that no virus comes along with that? The transportation relies on workers/drivers, no?

[lonelyglobe]

On 6/29/2022 at 10:57 PM, sgmaven said:

Do you really believe the spin doctors on this one? Honestly, just walking around the neighbourhoods and in malls, you will see the number of units vacated by businesses. Yes, some new tenants are willing to take up the leases of places, but many are the large chain stores or franchised restaurants.

Not sure but you got any figures to show the number of units close down because of covid?

 

Lets say a total 100 shops and maybe 20 closed,  they need to ask themselves why the other 80 can survive? Their product not nice? Their price too high? They cant get a good profit or simply too greedy? Too old to continue or have earn enough for retirement?  Yes,  covid maybe a cause but it cant be the only cause. There maybe many other reasons for their closure. The only few that can say due to covid perhaps are travel agent and money changer.  

 

As for large or franchised stores,  that is already happening before covid and it just further accerlerate during and after covid since they have better holding power. 

Edited June 30, 2022 by lonelyglobe

[Guest Guest]

 

On 6/29/2022 at 10:58 PM, sgmaven said:

If you are going to allow for the importation of essentials like food, how to you guarantee that no virus comes along with that? The transportation relies on workers/drivers, no?

 

So, again, did anyone asked for total lockdown to the extent that there is no import of food? Please show us the post. 

 

And, was there a strict protocol to follow for those transportation workers/drivers int he past during that strict lockdown? 

 

On 6/29/2022 at 10:57 PM, sgmaven said:

Do you really believe the spin doctors on this one? Honestly, just walking around the neighbourhoods and in malls, you will see the number of units vacated by businesses. Yes, some new tenants are willing to take up the leases of places, but many are the large chain stores or franchised restaurants.

 

How far do you intend to go with your denial of the truth? 

 

On 6/29/2022 at 10:58 PM, sgmaven said:

If you are going to allow for the importation of essentials like food, how to you guarantee that no virus comes along with that? The transportation relies on workers/drivers, no?

 

So, again, did anyone ask for total lockdown to the extent that there is no import of food? Please show us the post. 

 

And, was there a strict protocol to follow for those transportation workers/drivers int he past during that strict lockdown? 

 

On 6/29/2022 at 10:57 PM, sgmaven said:

Do you really believe the spin doctors on this one? Honestly, just walking around the neighbourhoods and in malls, you will see the number of units vacated by businesses. Yes, some new tenants are willing to take up the leases of places, but many are the large chain stores or franchised restaurants.

 

How far do you intend to go with your denial of the truth? 

[singalion]

On 6/29/2022 at 4:59 PM, lonelyglobe said:

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/firms-set-closed-down-covid-19-pandemic-hit-2288481

 

On 6/29/2022 at 10:57 PM, sgmaven said:

Do you really believe the spin doctors on this one? Honestly, just walking around the neighbourhoods and in malls, you will see the number of units vacated by businesses. Yes, some new tenants are willing to take up the leases of places, but many are the large chain stores or franchised restaurants.

 

The numbers from the CNA article can be easily explained.

 

They don't reflect the situation on the ground.

 

The fact that more operations started can simply be explained that it might have been "easier" or commercially making more sense to close an indebted company but to register a new company running the same business or shifting to a different location.

 

Do you really think most of the retail operators, restaurants, hawkers etc just stopped working?

 

If that had been the case then the unemployment numbers should have been much higher.

 

 

The real question to ask would be: How many operators are running their "previous" operations under a new set up?

 

You can encounter this by a name change of the outlet...

 

I just need to look at the prata shop in my "neighbourhood", name is new, outlet is the same, even the roti prata "cook" is the same...

 

The number also hints to the fact, that some operators might have shifted jobs and started a new venture, let's say instead of driving grab, opening a boutique or a food outlet...

 

 

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by singalion

[singalion]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:02 PM, lonelyglobe said:

As for large or franchised stores,  that is already happening before covid and it just further accerlerate during and after covid since they have better holding power. 

 

But even bigger operators closed operations in certain malls and reduced the number of outlets.

 

Don't forget that many outlets are run on franchise. While one franchisee gave up maybe another opened something in a different mall or outlet.

 

There are certain "heartland" malls which look devastated on the upper floors.

I assume only big rental cuts will bring smaller shops into the malls.

 

I made a recent bicycle trip to a certain heartland food court in the West and about 70% of all stalls were closed down. Don't forget not all hawkers or food courts are at the busy sections. it would be better to support those family run business instead of frequenting the big chains at the easily accessible locations (if you intend to keep a good range of local food).

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by singalion

[sgmaven]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:40 PM, Guest Guest said:

And, was there a strict protocol to follow for those transportation workers/drivers int he past during that strict lockdown?

Don't forget that the original wild strain of the virus tended to show itself with a fever. That was why temperature scanners were used everywhere during the early days of the pandemic.

 

Now, with Omicron and its sub-variants, a fever is not as common a symptom. That is why temperature scanners have been retired all over the world (for detecting possible COVID infections). Can you suggest what sort of protocol you would administer to allow for transport and logistic staff entering the country, yet prevent ANY virus from entering our shores?

On 6/30/2022 at 12:40 PM, Guest Guest said:

How far do you intend to go with your denial of the truth? 

Oh! You mean all those empty units in malls and in neighbourhoods have been empty all along? Come on! Lots of the suburban malls have so many more empty or vacated units than before the pandemic struck. In the past, most malls would have a ready tenant willing to take up a vacated unit if someone gives up the lease. You would have been able to see how even the more popular malls had problems finding tenants during the pandemic. Even now, with controls being reduced to a minimum, you still see empty units around (especially in the upper floors of suburban malls). If that is not evidence of businesses going under, I wonder what you think? Perhaps you think they decided to take their business to an even higher-priced location?

[sgmaven]

On 6/30/2022 at 12:02 PM, lonelyglobe said:

Not sure but you got any figures to show the number of units close down because of covid?

 

Lets say a total 100 shops and maybe 20 closed,  they need to ask themselves why the other 80 can survive? Their product not nice? Their price too high? They cant get a good profit or simply too greedy? Too old to continue or have earn enough for retirement?  Yes,  covid maybe a cause but it cant be the only cause. There maybe many other reasons for their closure. The only few that can say due to covid perhaps are travel agent and money changer.  

 

As for large or franchised stores,  that is already happening before covid and it just further accerlerate during and after covid since they have better holding power. 

I think memories are short when it comes to the pandemic and the control measures. During the lockdown, almost all shops except those selling groceries and medicines had to close. F&B could only be for takeaway, at best. So, if you were a shop selling, for example, electronic gadgets, you would have had to close. If you were an eatery, you would quickly have to pivot towards takeaway business, and move online. Those that did not jump on the food-delivery app bandwagon got hit very hard. And don't forget that the food delivery app companies also extracted a hefty margin, so many eateries had to increase prices or reduce portion size to keep going. You might say that those F&B businesses that did not embrace the food-delivery apps and went bust only had themselves to blame, but don't forget that all that was happening when business-owners were also faced with problems with staff - many working in F&B are not local, so accommodation for the staff, and whether they wanted to return to their homeland, etc.; as well as supply chain issues - many forget how we would suddenly run out of certain things in supermarkets due to the supply chain hiccups.

 

You mentioned travel agents and money changers, but you also forget those who do business targeted at tourists. There are souvenir shops that really only sell to tourists and visitors, for example. As for other businesses, don't forget that many businesses who do in-person mass events were severely impacted too. Events companies, pasar malam operators, etc.