Pink Dot Event Discussion (2007 to Present Day) (compiled)

[singalion]

On 6/23/2023 at 11:09 PM, Guest guest said:

So many speeches?  😴

Anyway, eversince they have barricaded the area and need to check IC to gain entry into the area, and only limited people are allowed inside, i have stop going to PinkDot. 

 

Good move as Pink Dot doesn't require any such negativity but a positive gay attitude. 

 

Surely better any complaint queens stay at home and don't spoil the positive vibes... 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by singalion

[Guest What’s your point]

On 6/24/2023 at 1:46 PM, Guest guest said:

Troublesome, still need to go queue early. And got limit numbers of people get inside.

those are kind of pathetic reasons tbh

 

of course there are number limits, the size of the place is fixed

 

ridiculous to complain about this 

[whitefuck]

15 hours ago, Guest hmmm.... said:

God limit meh?  I thought pandemic over already.  Besides, got Ang Mo, which means foreigners can enter or are they PR?   I didn't notice any PAPPY representative attenting, only WP members which is good sign to earn my votes. 

 Well. you gonna remember WP did have members voting against the repeal of 377A.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/wp-mps-take-differing-positions-on-repeal-of-s377a

[superflawless]

I never forget how each and every WP voted. 

[Guest Guest]

27 minutes ago, superflawless said:

I never forget how each and every WP voted. 

 

i was surprised the most gay looking one (who came from a boys' school) voted against it.

[superflawless]

Study confirmed that homophobes are actually closeted gays. 

[Guest Angry gay]

As a gay, I have not attended any of pink dot events in the past or present. 

 

But apparently my straight colleagues who went to pink dot on the weekend kept talking about it during lunch. 

 

I just kept quiet and roll my eyes. 

 

I find it hilarious that straight people find it so entertaining. I have years of shame and guilt to overcome.

 

It doesn't just go away because the gahmen now say we are legal. 

 

The damage is already done to me. 

[fitcubsg]

its funny that people who didnt attend the event get to critic the event or the nitty gritty elements about who voted for or against 377A, does it really matter? Pink dot is meant to bring people togther, the people who fought to have it, worked very hard to put this event on the map. We worked around the issues at hand and still despite the pandemic we are holding it. Its progress for a conservative country like ours. Yes, we all have been victimised by the government in the past, we all have our issues at hand but its best to put it aside and embrace the event for what is, solidarity against adversity for the LGBTQ community in Singapore, Straight allys are always welcome! The queue was nothing, i moved into the holding area quickly, Ang Mos are also can be PRs right? Also, there were supporters outside the dot, which shows their support. I have been impressed since 2017, been attending all this while. Kudos to the team behind Pink Dot!

Edited June 27, 2023 by fitcubsg

[Guest What’s your point]

33 minutes ago, fitcubsg said:

its funny that people who didnt attend the event get to critise the event or the nitty gritty elements about who voted for or against 377A, does it really matter? Pink dot is meant to bring people togther, the people who fought to have it have it, worked very hard to put this event on the map. We worked around the issues at hand and still hold it over the pandemic, its progress for a conservative country like ours. Yes, we all have been victimised by the government in the past, we all have our issues at hand but its best to put it aside and embrace the event for what is, solidarity against adversity for the LGBTQ community in Singapore, Straight allys are always welcome! The queue was nothing, i moved into the holding area quickly, Ang Mos are also can be PRs right? Also, there were supporters outside the dot, which shows their support. I am impressed since 2017, been attending all this while. Kudos to the theme behind Pink Dot!

exactly this

 

👏

[Guest huh?]

4 hours ago, Guest Angry gay said:

As a gay, I have not attended any of pink dot events in the past or present. 

 

But apparently my straight colleagues who went to pink dot on the weekend kept talking about it during lunch. 

 

I just kept quiet and roll my eyes. 

 

I find it hilarious that straight people find it so entertaining. I have years of shame and guilt to overcome.

 

It doesn't just go away because the gahmen now say we are legal. 

 

The damage is already done to me. 

You mean your problem is our problem and we shouldn't support Pinkdot because you were angry and emotional constricted by self-shame or was it self-righteousness at play?

[Guest Guest]

5 hours ago, superflawless said:

Study confirmed that homophobes are actually closeted gays. 

Thanks for your comment, which made me google searched for it.

 

Homophobia & Homosexual Arousal

 

Interesting ... just read the abstract and summary. Next time I know who to look out for .... 😆

[Guest Pinky Puffer]

Disregard what others have to say. Today, Pinkdot is still a hugely popular annual event. It provides a platform for many young generations to express themselves, recognize their own identities, and go on picnics with other like-minded people.As they matured and set out on this life's path, all young gay infants born will no longer feel alone since they will always know that pinkdot would be there for them.  This also apply to lonely elderly gay man.  In fact elderly gay people presence send an even stronger statement that being gay is a life journey, not something you can change.   As such, we shouldn't be bothered by blacksheeps or self-hated gay. 

[Guest Guest]

8 hours ago, Guest Guest said:

 

i was surprised the most gay looking one (who came from a boys' school) voted against it.

Who is most gay looking one?

[Guest Guest]

7 hours ago, Guest Angry gay said:

As a gay, I have not attended any of pink dot events in the past or present. 

 

But apparently my straight colleagues who went to pink dot on the weekend kept talking about it during lunch. 

 

I just kept quiet and roll my eyes. 

 

I find it hilarious that straight people find it so entertaining. I have years of shame and guilt to overcome.

 

It doesn't just go away because the gahmen now say we are legal. 

 

The damage is already done to me. 

Why do straight people go to pink dot and find it so entertaining? They do pink dot like going to music concert?

[Guest Guest]

1 hour ago, Guest Pinky Puffer said:

Disregard what others have to say. Today, Pinkdot is still a hugely popular annual event. It provides a platform for many young generations to express themselves, recognize their own identities, and go on picnics with other like-minded people.As they matured and set out on this life's path, all young gay infants born will no longer feel alone since they will always know that pinkdot would be there for them.  This also apply to lonely elderly gay man.  In fact elderly gay people presence send an even stronger statement that being gay is a life journey, not something you can change.   As such, we shouldn't be bothered by blacksheeps or self-hated gay. 

Pinkdot in SG = Pride parade in other countries? 

[Guest Guest]

41 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

Why do straight people go to pink dot and find it so entertaining? They do pink dot like going to music concert?

Those straight people who go pink dot, if you purposely seduce / flirt with / touch / molest them, they (straight people) may still whack you hard like crazy on the spot, right? Means some of them are not "really there to support the LGBTQs"? 🙄

[Guest AhBo]

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

Who is most gay looking one?

You lor, ah bo who?

[Guest Bye bye]

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

Why do straight people go to pink dot and find it so entertaining? They do pink dot like going to music concert?

 

1 hour ago, Guest Guest said:

Those straight people who go pink dot, if you purposely seduce / flirt with / touch / molest them, they (straight people) may still whack you hard like crazy on the spot, right? Means some of them are not "really there to support the LGBTQs"? 🙄

bye bye shit stirring trolls - your posts deserve zero other engagement 

[superflawless]

I am proud of Pinkdot. I have volunteered in the past.

I was a Team Leader for a few years too.

I shall never volunteer again.

 

Where there are people, there will always be politics.

 

I was never at The Eye of the storm, but I can see clearly the happenings behind the curtains.

I will die on the hill to protect and say good things about PinkDot in front of my friends and gay allies, but I know that PinkDot is quite shady. So in my mind, it's best to keep some distance.

If you don't believe me, please volunteer for a few years. One year is NOT enough. Volunteer for a couple of years, even become a team leader, then you can decide for yourself if it's for you.

It isn't for me, but I need to reiterate, I am proud of Pink Dot.

They started it first and it's been emulated across the globe. It's different from Pride parades in other countries. 

[Guest Guest]

3 hours ago, superflawless said:

I am proud of Pinkdot. I have volunteered in the past.

I was a Team Leader for a few years too.

I shall never volunteer again.

 

Where there are people, there will always be politics.

 

I was never at The Eye of the storm, but I can see clearly the happenings behind the curtains.

I will die on the hill to protect and say good things about PinkDot in front of my friends and gay allies, but I know that PinkDot is quite shady. So in my mind, it's best to keep some distance.

If you don't believe me, please volunteer for a few years. One year is NOT enough. Volunteer for a couple of years, even become a team leader, then you can decide for yourself if it's for you.

It isn't for me, but I need to reiterate, I am proud of Pink Dot.

They started it first and it's been emulated across the globe. It's different from Pride parades in other countries. 

Din know the darker side of things .... maybe power struggle, pride (the negative sense), arrogance, jealousy, favouritism, spite, discrimination (of the discriminated) all came in .... 😱

[Guest Lol]

3 hours ago, superflawless said:

I am proud of Pinkdot. I have volunteered in the past.

I was a Team Leader for a few years too.

I shall never volunteer again.

 

Where there are people, there will always be politics.

 

I was never at The Eye of the storm, but I can see clearly the happenings behind the curtains.

I will die on the hill to protect and say good things about PinkDot in front of my friends and gay allies, but I know that PinkDot is quite shady. So in my mind, it's best to keep some distance.

If you don't believe me, please volunteer for a few years. One year is NOT enough. Volunteer for a couple of years, even become a team leader, then you can decide for yourself if it's for you.

It isn't for me, but I need to reiterate, I am proud of Pink Dot.

They started it first and it's been emulated across the globe. It's different from Pride parades in other countries. 

‘I will die on the hill to protect and say good things about PinkDot in front of my friends and gay allies’ - that hill didn’t last long  😂 

 

what was the point of your post? 

[Guest Guest]

7 hours ago, superflawless said:

I am proud of Pinkdot. I have volunteered in the past.

I was a Team Leader for a few years too.

I shall never volunteer again.

 

Where there are people, there will always be politics.

 

I was never at The Eye of the storm, but I can see clearly the happenings behind the curtains.

I will die on the hill to protect and say good things about PinkDot in front of my friends and gay allies, but I know that PinkDot is quite shady. So in my mind, it's best to keep some distance.

If you don't believe me, please volunteer for a few years. One year is NOT enough. Volunteer for a couple of years, even become a team leader, then you can decide for yourself if it's for you.

It isn't for me, but I need to reiterate, I am proud of Pink Dot.

They started it first and it's been emulated across the globe. It's different from Pride parades in other countries. 

Agreed on what you said, where there are people, there will always be politics. It is same everywhere, even in a forum.

[benedict5856]

Being a gay myself, i would say - PinkDot is a disgrace.

Pathetic people fighting for so-called rights.

 

Now its legalised, they wanna marriage.

Pui!

whats next? wanna adopt children?

[Guest Boomer]

7 hours ago, benedict5856 said:

Being a gay myself, i would say - PinkDot is a disgrace.

Pathetic people fighting for so-called rights.

 

Now its legalised, they wanna marriage.

Pui!

whats next? wanna adopt children?

OK boomer 

[superflawless]

10 hours ago, benedict5856 said:

Being a gay myself, i would say - PinkDot is a disgrace.

Pathetic people fighting for so-called rights.

 

Now its legalised, they wanna marriage.

Pui!

whats next? wanna adopt children?

You don't want equal rights? You like to be discriminated? Pink Dot has done a lot of good bringing awareness and context to a once taboo subject. 

The gays I know do not want to be given special privileges; they just want the same rights as everyone else.

That is NOT too much to ask and fight for.

And based on what we know in history, people won't give you equal rights; you have to fight for it. And this includes adopting children. Who were given up by straight couples. 

 

[Guest Roy Tan]

11 hours ago, benedict5856 said:

Being a gay myself, i would say - PinkDot is a disgrace.

Pathetic people fighting for so-called rights.

 

Now its legalised, they wanna marriage.

Pui!

whats next? wanna adopt children?

https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.fandom.com/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Singapore

 

https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.fandom.com/wiki/Same-sex_parenting_in_Singapore

 

https://the-singapore-lgbt-encyclopaedia.fandom.com/wiki/Child_adoption_by_same-sex_couples_in_Singapore

[Guest Question on Repeal]

TDLR- Repeal + New Marriage laws seems like one step forward two steps back.

 

I am not allowed to go to PinkDot as I am not local or PR. 
I am very interested in the public’s mindset on the repeal. 
I am quite ignorant to the nuance of the repeal. 
I understand it’s something that a lot of people fought long and hard for. 
And the repeal must have such a relief, even though it’s symbolic and not being enforced, it can affect society’s mindset. 
 

However passing a bill or law (I am not sure) that says marriage can only be changed by parliament seems to be a HUGE backward step. 
 

it seems that gay people will never be able to apply for HDB at the same time as straight couples. Never have marriage recognised and therefor not be able to be at the bedside of a sick partner in hospital. There’s no need for me to list all the inequalities of this I’m sure you all understand what I mean. 
 

How do you all feel about this?

and

Why was there very little noise or outcry about this?

 

I ask this out of genuine interest. I’m not trolling, I’m not meddling in another countries politics, and I am sure I have got some minor facts wrong above. I am just trying to understand this situation as an outsider. 
Feel free to correct and educate me. 
Thanks 

 

[Guest you are the disgrace]

On 6/28/2023 at 1:16 AM, benedict5856 said:

Being a gay myself, i would say - PinkDot is a disgrace.

Pathetic people fighting for so-called rights.

 

Now its legalised, they wanna marriage.

Pui!

whats next? wanna adopt children?

 

you are a disgrace to gays then.

i have never attended pinkdot before, but i appreciate what these people are doing.

who are you to call people 'pathetic'?

 

we are normal human beings, we pay taxes, we contribute to economy just like everyone else, why cant we have our rights?

the way i see it, the advocates in SG are practical and realistic people, they know when to push forward, they know when to stop, they know when to take a step back.

we all know gay marriage is definitely not possible in our generation. but i hope the future LGBTs get to access this rights.

for me, i am definitely grateful that i get to see the repeal of 377A in my lifetime. this basic rights is already given in many other asian countries.

 

empty vessels make the most noise.

the word 'PUI' should be used on you, and not people who helped to make things happen.

[keyboard]

It might look over the top but to get people's buy-in and awareness is to make it easy for people to understand or at the very least, enjoy the event - visibility is a way to be seen as a first step.

 

Loosely using the word privileged, have you experienced at work, asked to stand-in for a co-worker who's kid has a fever, or weekend work is assigned to you by default, working late on weekdays as your co-worker need to pick up the kid from childcare etc etc. How about school holidays leave priority are given to those with kids?

 

Ever noticed when younger, there's no handicap people around. Not that they don't exist, but they were not given the choice to live a life - to take public transport, to visit places of interest, to have human connection with someone who lives slightly further away. The only form of transport is private (cabs etc). Imagine going to work daily on taxi. These people are not intellectually disabled - they can contribute to society like you or me - but never given the chance (most schools at 4 storey does not come equipped with lifts or handicap toilets).

 

Why we need PinkDot and why it took so long to reach where we are - at whatever stage we are at. There are people who face discrimination. We might not be affected but as a Singaporean, aren't you supposed to look after your fellow man? At the very least, not throw shit in his face. There's always a straight saying, all gays should be gas chambered. I always thought I could volunteer and make it a live show and collect tickets and have the person do it in front of mine and his/her parents. The proceeds for the tickets will go to their parents. Make sure the chamber is clear and gas is clear so all can see how a human can volunteer to end another person life.

 

Would the result be empathy or a profit making machine justifying for killing for the greater good. Greater good in this case is those who will not be rounded up and gassed.

[Guest Sg local]

3 hours ago, Guest Question on Repeal said:

TDLR- Repeal + New Marriage laws seems like one step forward two steps back.

 

I am not allowed to go to PinkDot as I am not local or PR. 
I am very interested in the public’s mindset on the repeal. 
I am quite ignorant to the nuance of the repeal. 
I understand it’s something that a lot of people fought long and hard for. 
And the repeal must have such a relief, even though it’s symbolic and not being enforced, it can affect society’s mindset. 
 

However passing a bill or law (I am not sure) that says marriage can only be changed by parliament seems to be a HUGE backward step. 
 

it seems that gay people will never be able to apply for HDB at the same time as straight couples. Never have marriage recognised and therefor not be able to be at the bedside of a sick partner in hospital. There’s no need for me to list all the inequalities of this I’m sure you all understand what I mean. 
 

How do you all feel about this?

and

Why was there very little noise or outcry about this?

 

I ask this out of genuine interest. I’m not trolling, I’m not meddling in another countries politics, and I am sure I have got some minor facts wrong above. I am just trying to understand this situation as an outsider. 
Feel free to correct and educate me. 
Thanks 

 

 

I support the decision to exclude foreigners from Pinkdot. After all, how lgbt movement progresses in Singapore  should  be and must be made by Singaporeans free from interfere by any foreign agents or players.

 

Repeal + New Marriage laws is not a step backwards but a wise and balance  decision made by the government to preserve the peace and harmony in the society between the conservatives and progressive. We should  know this having gone through  the racial riots in the 1960s. The government knows that harmony  is precious  and hard-earned and it must make the decisions carefully to satisfy the pro-lgbt camp and the conservatives camp so as not to create  disharmony in the society. I think  the government  also take lessons from seeing how divisive the USA society  is now when it's government  make hard pressed policies to force the policies down to the throats  of either their Conservatives or the Progressive creating bitter hate  and animosity between the 2 camps. 

 

I dare say that more and more Singaporeans are more open to and accepting Lgbts. But that does not mean our general traditional society  endorse the promotion  of lgbt lifestyle especially  when it comes to family  nucleus. For this reasons, subsidised HDB flats are prioritised for straight  couple family but also from economical point of view. But that  does not mean that Lgbt couple couldn't get any subsidised HDB flats. They could get by applying as Singles for a 2room HDB subsidised flat with grant for singles or they could buy HDB resale flats from the open market. 

 

I'm happy  that we have achieved the milestone of repealing  S377A to make it a law not criminalise sex between men and there are also laws to protect lgbts from discrimination. However,  i have reservations to promote lgbt lifestyle in Singapore, especially when it comes to  marriage and lgbts adopting kids, a view I believe is also  shared by other local lgbts at least for now.

[Guest Question on Repeal]

1 hour ago, Guest Sg local said:

 

I support the decision to exclude foreigners from Pinkdot. After all, how lgbt movement progresses in Singapore  should  be and must be made by Singaporeans free from interfere by any foreign agents or players.

 

Repeal + New Marriage laws is not a step backwards but a wise and balance  decision made by the government to preserve the peace and harmony in the society between the conservatives and progressive. We should  know this having gone through  the racial riots in the 1960s. The government knows that harmony  is precious  and hard-earned and it must make the decisions carefully to satisfy the pro-lgbt camp and the conservatives camp so as not to create  disharmony in the society. I think  the government  also take lessons from seeing how divisive the USA society  is now when it's government  make hard pressed policies to force the policies down to the throats  of either their Conservatives or the Progressive creating bitter hate  and animosity between the 2 camps. 

 

I dare say that more and more Singaporeans are more open to and accepting Lgbts. But that does not mean our general traditional society  endorse the promotion  of lgbt lifestyle especially  when it comes to family  nucleus. For this reasons, subsidised HDB flats are prioritised for straight  couple family but also from economical point of view. But that  does not mean that Lgbt couple couldn't get any subsidised HDB flats. They could get by applying as Singles for a 2room HDB subsidised flat with grant for singles or they could buy HDB resale flats from the open market. 

 

I'm happy  that we have achieved the milestone of repealing  S377A to make it a law not criminalise sex between men and there are also laws to protect lgbts from discrimination. However,  i have reservations to promote lgbt lifestyle in Singapore, especially when it comes to  marriage and lgbts adopting kids, a view I believe is also  shared by other local lgbts at least for now.

Thanks for replying and interesting viewpoint with regards to your concerns of civil unrest. 
 

I‘ll not give my point of view on that, as it’s not important. 
 

I agree America is divided, but I feel it’s a multitude of issues coming to ahead at once. And simply put, the place is broken at the moment.
 

Anyone else care to give their point of view or educate me?

 

 

[keyboard]

18 minutes ago, Guest Question on Repeal said:

Thanks for replying and interesting viewpoint with regards to your concerns of civil unrest. 
 

I‘ll not give my point of view on that, as it’s not important. 
 

I agree America is divided, but I feel it’s a multitude of issues coming to ahead at once. And simply put, the place is broken at the moment.
 

Anyone else care to give their point of view or educate me?

Hi, Thanks for your question and I as a Singapore gay man also once wondered why I felt nothing towards this PinkDot thing for so so so many years.

 

This is going to sound demeaning. Generally Singaporeans are not very critical thinkers, for the country to succeed, it relied on a conforming group of stable workers to deliver it's results. That used to work till information is more freely accessible and people start to be less of a group-thinker. Used to work for the past few decades.

 

Who really knew a repeal was actually going to happen? Not many. The general ideas like Freedom to Love, Love is Love, doesn't have a concrete plan or steps that people can follow. We want not to be discriminated, we want equal rights (aka buy HDB), we want to hold hands in public, etc etc but like what do you have to do to get it, there's lawfully no way - only not get caught by the law. Gays end up cruising at famous places where gays hang out. Doing illegal stuffs, dropping hints, caught with their pants down. We get a bad rep. I'm not old, but gay clubs and saunas do get raided by police in my time.

 

For a straight man, you go and say hi to a girl and the girl gets agitated. People will say don't act like a Karen. Gay go stare at a man too long and it becomes a village let's torch the witch drama. The law criminalizes you whether it is enacted or not. Just like how some people don't jaywalk at a traffic light even when there's no cars around.

 

Note that even though majority of people don't care or don't understand, it does not affect them per se (at this point). You have groups that need to enforce their values and unfortunately, being gay is not part of that. We all heard about conversion camps or outfits, who are we to say what is right or wrong. Enough people believe in it and it's right for them. Mind you, there are some youtube channel who are progressive yet in their late 20s already formed that their values are not inline with accepting certain values.

 

I'm one of those that do not see myself in that equality stage in my lifetime. I do support the movement as it means a niece/nephew/stranger's son/daughter will not have to go through what I went through in life to overcome, just being gay.

 

I am hopeful the world will gradually change to be more accepting or normalizing in the next 100 years. Let's all be realistic, the hate will always be there.

[Guest Question on Repeal]

2 hours ago, Guest Sg local said:

 

I support the decision to exclude foreigners from Pinkdot. After all, how lgbt movement progresses in Singapore  should  be and must be made by Singaporeans free from interfere by any foreign agents or players.

 

Repeal + New Marriage laws is not a step backwards but a wise and balance  decision made by the government to preserve the peace and harmony in the society between the conservatives and progressive. We should  know this having gone through  the racial riots in the 1960s. The government knows that harmony  is precious  and hard-earned and it must make the decisions carefully to satisfy the pro-lgbt camp and the conservatives camp so as not to create  disharmony in the society. I think  the government  also take lessons from seeing how divisive the USA society  is now when it's government  make hard pressed policies to force the policies down to the throats  of either their Conservatives or the Progressive creating bitter hate  and animosity between the 2 camps. 

 

I dare say that more and more Singaporeans are more open to and accepting Lgbts. But that does not mean our general traditional society  endorse the promotion  of lgbt lifestyle especially  when it comes to family  nucleus. For this reasons, subsidised HDB flats are prioritised for straight  couple family but also from economical point of view. But that  does not mean that Lgbt couple couldn't get any subsidised HDB flats. They could get by applying as Singles for a 2room HDB subsidised flat with grant for singles or they could buy HDB resale flats from the open market. 

 

I'm happy  that we have achieved the milestone of repealing  S377A to make it a law not criminalise sex between men and there are also laws to protect lgbts from discrimination. However,  i have reservations to promote lgbt lifestyle in Singapore, especially when it comes to  marriage and lgbts adopting kids, a view I believe is also  shared by other local lgbts at least for now.

I should add I’m happy the law was repealed as well. It’s long overdue. 
 

[Guest Question on Repeal]

13 minutes ago, keyboard said:

Hi, Thanks for your question and I as a Singapore gay man also once wondered why I felt nothing towards this PinkDot thing for so so so many years.

 

This is going to sound demeaning. Generally Singaporeans are not very critical thinkers, for the country to succeed, it relied on a conforming group of stable workers to deliver it's results. That used to work till information is more freely accessible and people start to be less of a group-thinker. Used to work for the past few decades.

 

Who really knew a repeal was actually going to happen? Not many. The general ideas like Freedom to Love, Love is Love, doesn't have a concrete plan or steps that people can follow. We want not to be discriminated, we want equal rights (aka buy HDB), we want to hold hands in public, etc etc but like what do you have to do to get it, there's lawfully no way - only not get caught by the law. Gays end up cruising at famous places where gays hang out. Doing illegal stuffs, dropping hints, caught with their pants down. We get a bad rep. I'm not old, but gay clubs and saunas do get raided by police in my time.

 

For a straight man, you go and say hi to a girl and the girl gets agitated. People will say don't act like a Karen. Gay go stare at a man too long and it becomes a village let's torch the witch drama. The law criminalizes you whether it is enacted or not. Just like how some people don't jaywalk at a traffic light even when there's no cars around.

 

Note that even though majority of people don't care or don't understand, it does not affect them per se (at this point). You have groups that need to enforce their values and unfortunately, being gay is not part of that. We all heard about conversion camps or outfits, who are we to say what is right or wrong. Enough people believe in it and it's right for them. Mind you, there are some youtube channel who are progressive yet in their late 20s already formed that their values are not inline with accepting certain values.

 

I'm one of those that do not see myself in that equality stage in my lifetime. I do support the movement as it means a niece/nephew/stranger's son/daughter will not have to go through what I went through in life to overcome, just being gay.

 

I am hopeful the world will gradually change to be more accepting or normalizing in the next 100 years. Let's all be realistic, the hate will always be there.

I agree I feel it’s a long way for acceptance by the majority of society. By that I mean not 51/49 majority but a genuinely tolerant and friendly society towards those that don’t hold the same sexual or relationship preferences. 80/20 type of thing. Like Bangkok for examples. 
 

Pulling back from religion and looking basic at a basic human level. It is just a simple request of a level playing field. 
And

I don’t think that is too much for a society to ask of itself. 
 

I think a lot of people don’t understand what is happening ‘on the ground’

i know several people who have been attacked. One just the other day and involved a pile and two people with bloody injuries. And due to past experiences they were really scared to report it to police. 
I think alot of this goes unreported. 
I also feel there is a large portion of the gay population that visibly blend in and there is a more alternative portion of the population that look unconventional to most Singaporeans in the clothes they wear, style and some times make up. Things that is some societies are seen as creative or interesting. Here those people seems to get stared at and as above far worse. 
 

So I think it’s easier for those that are out of the closet but not obviously queer. 
Which is probably 70% of the gay population?
So they are potentially not seeing or feeling what their younger or more flamboyant brothers and sisters are going through. 

[keyboard]

I would say, go to the police if you can. Though i'm not hopefully things will change for the better, assault or battery seems to be more civil lawsuit, like a pay  my hospital fee and a slap on the wrist. You can't wash the stink out of low ses people. It doesn't make front page news. Real change comes with a shock to the core.

 

There's never a level playing field. Everyone has it's advantageous and disadvantages. Say looks, height, skin colour etc etc. Some people win more, some lose more. Will you give up what you won to someone who lost? What happens if they keep losing?

 

The people who hid it better, do better. They can claim I want to be true to my life, etc. It comes with a price. We have less accepting neighbours even within our own country. It's easier if you don't have as much stress in life, you are less critical of others when there isn't more happiness to fight for.

[Guest Question on Repeal]

1 hour ago, keyboard said:

I would say, go to the police if you can. Though i'm not hopefully things will change for the better, assault or battery seems to be more civil lawsuit, like a pay  my hospital fee and a slap on the wrist. You can't wash the stink out of low ses people. It doesn't make front page news. Real change comes with a shock to the core.

 

There's never a level playing field. Everyone has it's advantageous and disadvantages. Say looks, height, skin colour etc etc. Some people win more, some lose more. Will you give up what you won to someone who lost? What happens if they keep losing?

 

The people who hid it better, do better. They can claim I want to be true to my life, etc. It comes with a price. We have less accepting neighbours even within our own country. It's easier if you don't have as much stress in life, you are less critical of others when there isn't more happiness to fight for.

They have chosen not to go to the police. And it’s for them to decide I don’t want to intrude as they have been attacked before and the experience influences thier decision. 

yes there will always be unevenness in our lives due to societies ways but simple human level things that are under our control. 100 years ago who would have thought we would be allowing women at the polling booth? Ridiculous idea back then! 
But we have made progress, and that’s a good thing. 

 

Such a shame, as you say, being yourself and minding your own business can sometimes come with a price. And I should say, this can happen in any country.
I was just surprised it happens here and I think a lot of people don’t realise how much it occurs. 
 

I appreciate your replies tonight 🙏🏽

[keyboard]

Back to the, even if you're aware of it. What can you do about it? You could go to a community leader and express your thoughts. In turn feedback into a ministry. More effective could be to hold your boyfriend's hand in public, hugs your friends and co-workers, and display a rainbow flag at your work cubicle.

 

It's not that gays never existed, they are just very well hidden even today.

[Guest Question on Repeal]

14 hours ago, keyboard said:

Back to the, even if you're aware of it. What can you do about it? You could go to a community leader and express your thoughts. In turn feedback into a ministry. More effective could be to hold your boyfriend's hand in public, hugs your friends and co-workers, and display a rainbow flag at your work cubicle.

 

It's not that gays never existed, they are just very well hidden even today.

I guess it’s up to the individual on how they feel and how it affects their lifestyle or the lifestyle they would like to live. 
 

I don’t really have an answer that is meaningful on this. 
Not sure hugging coworkers is the way forward!! Lol HR may not like that. 
Conversation and dialogue can help I guess. 

[singalion]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:06 PM, Guest Sg local said:

 

I support the decision to exclude foreigners from Pinkdot. After all, how lgbt movement progresses in Singapore  should  be and must be made by Singaporeans free from interfere by any foreign agents or players.

 

Repeal + New Marriage laws is not a step backwards but a wise and balance  decision made by the government to preserve the peace and harmony in the society between the conservatives and progressive. We should  know this having gone through  the racial riots in the 1960s. The government knows that harmony  is precious  and hard-earned and it must make the decisions carefully to satisfy the pro-lgbt camp and the conservatives camp so as not to create  disharmony in the society. I think  the government  also take lessons from seeing how divisive the USA society  is now when it's government  make hard pressed policies to force the policies down to the throats  of either their Conservatives or the Progressive creating bitter hate  and animosity between the 2 camps. 

 

I dare say that more and more Singaporeans are more open to and accepting Lgbts. But that does not mean our general traditional society  endorse the promotion  of lgbt lifestyle especially  when it comes to family  nucleus. For this reasons, subsidised HDB flats are prioritised for straight  couple family but also from economical point of view. But that  does not mean that Lgbt couple couldn't get any subsidised HDB flats. They could get by applying as Singles for a 2room HDB subsidised flat with grant for singles or they could buy HDB resale flats from the open market. 

 

I'm happy  that we have achieved the milestone of repealing  S377A to make it a law not criminalise sex between men and there are also laws to protect lgbts from discrimination. However,  i have reservations to promote lgbt lifestyle in Singapore, especially when it comes to  marriage and lgbts adopting kids, a view I believe is also  shared by other local lgbts at least for now.

 

There are also other areas you didn't cover, such as a persisting negative conoctation on LGBT in tv and cinema / cultural shows. The censor board made clear that previous negative film ratings remain and LGBT scenes will face the existing scrutiny. 

 

Besides that you missed one major point in your essay on gay rights, namely homosexuality has no impact on marriage of straight people. Looking from this angle I find the change on straight marriage in order to achieve decriminalisation of homosexual acts not very persuasive. 

 

Further, looking at the huge divorce rate of straights in Singapore that existed prior to the repeal of 377A I didn't see how gay marriage had affected straights on that issue. 

 

I assume that the government simply intended to silence some vocal and radical voices to push through parliament the repeal of 377A. Otherwise the issue had resulted in a fiercely opposed debate, which most propably had turned very nasty and heated. 

 

You also didn't cover that Europe doesn't have any bitter fights on this issue compared to the US and resolved the gay marriage right in religious European states very peacefully. 

 

We will see what focus future Pink Dot events will have... 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by singalion

[MasterFitMalaySG4U]

Based on this year videos everywhere it seems to see many women...just felt not as much  before...for Singapore pride month is same place Hong Lim Park, for Philippines, they have parade for it in the roads same like in the US & Europe. 

 

Nevertheless, there is more need to be done....

[keyboard]

There is a lot that is not covered. Also not like we gays don't know the issues we face since we were young and still today. I see it like a marketing campaign for non-gays/gays who are against gays etc to gain acceptance/understanding from the outside population. How many years? Many more.

 

Same as I was at a ah-hoc drinks session, the 70s generation had to deal with the 60s, couples stayed in a loveless marriage. The 80s gave free rein to their children. The 90s don't have to get married for the sake of marrying. But what tools have we given to the 00s to cope with the new realities of life? I can't imagine surviving in the workforce when the next decade comes (likely booted out by the end of the year).

 

We had our IRC, they now have discords and friends are virtual.

 

I'm fine with the event being Instagramable worthy even if it's fake etc. It served it's purpose, big or small.

 

Correct me if i'm wrong, the repeal of 377A was inevitable as there were multiple rounds (over so much $$ and years) in the court process and the next one will likely cause a constitution change that might have unfavorable effects on the current government to handle? So the government decided to control it by doing what it did - which I think is their mandate from the majority of the people.

 

To be honest, Repeal 377A is ?10 years in the making? Those born in the 2000s has just gone into the workforce and the next generation of kids being born is pushed further back. We would be expecting slower changes till the older/old fashioned generation... you know.

[superflawless]

20 hours ago, keyboard said:

the repeal of 377A was inevitable

Really?

I wasn't as sure as you were before it was finally repealed.

Does anyone share his optimism back before LHL's speech August last year? 

[keyboard]

5 hours ago, superflawless said:

Really?

I wasn't as sure as you were before it was finally repealed.

Does anyone share his optimism back before LHL's speech August last year? 

That was after the court decision on the last round of "dont know what's the correct term" that a group of people go challenge the courts - they been doing it over multiple times over multiple years. Something about the next time someone go and challenge the courts again, they will have to throw the law out of the court.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_(Singapore)

2010 started. The portion,

On 28 February 2022, it was ruled by the Court of Appeal that, because the law is not enforced, the constitutional challenges against it had failed.[1][50]

 

There were articles written after this court thing that explained (which i don't quite understand) but i think it meant that it's better that the government repeal the law rather than the courts rule it unconstitutional and delete the law? Somebody might be better able to explain it.

[benedict5856]

On 6/28/2023 at 12:01 PM, superflawless said:

You don't want equal rights? You like to be discriminated? Pink Dot has done a lot of good bringing awareness and context to a once taboo subject. 

The gays I know do not want to be given special privileges; they just want the same rights as everyone else.

That is NOT too much to ask and fight for.

And based on what we know in history, people won't give you equal rights; you have to fight for it. And this includes adopting children. Who were given up by straight couples. 

 

 

 

in the first place, equal rights don't exist.

gays can't give birth to children, so how can they have any rights.

its all craps, living in their own imagination world.

[benedict5856]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:00 PM, Guest you are the disgrace said:

 

you are a disgrace to gays then.

i have never attended pinkdot before, but i appreciate what these people are doing.

who are you to call people 'pathetic'?

 

we are normal human beings, we pay taxes, we contribute to economy just like everyone else, why cant we have our rights?

the way i see it, the advocates in SG are practical and realistic people, they know when to push forward, they know when to stop, they know when to take a step back.

we all know gay marriage is definitely not possible in our generation. but i hope the future LGBTs get to access this rights.

for me, i am definitely grateful that i get to see the repeal of 377A in my lifetime. this basic rights is already given in many other asian countries.

 

empty vessels make the most noise.

the word 'PUI' should be used on you, and not people who helped to make things happen.

 

The most disgrace are those fighting for so-called rights.

Discrimination happens everywhere, not just being gay.

Be it race, age, intelligence, ability, connections, discrimination will always be there.

Yes, now its legal to have sex. So what? what's next? our lives will be even better??? please lah.

[superflawless]

Discrimination is just plain wrong. We fight each one the best we can, including but not limited to, race, age and homosexuality.

If you want to stand on the wrong side of history, go right ahead.

But don't be a sexually active gay men and then say it is no big deal to have legal gay sex in Singapore.

It is a big deal and will lead to better things for the LGBTQ community in the long term. 

Now, if you do not wish to be of help to the community, it's okay. Just DON'T stand in our way while we fight for our right to live as free as our straight peers. 

[Steve5380]

On 7/21/2023 at 9:48 AM, benedict5856 said:

 

The most disgrace are those fighting for so-called rights.

Discrimination happens everywhere, not just being gay.

Be it race, age, intelligence, ability, connections, discrimination will always be there.

Yes, now its legal to have sex. So what? what's next? our lives will be even better??? please lah.

 

Maybe the next item should be same-sex marriage.  Wouldn't you like to have a husband?

 

You are right that discrimination happens everywhere.  I discriminate against so many flavors...  in favor of chocolate (!!)

 

I don't even complain of being a special object of discrimination in Pink-Dot events...  because I am a foreigner!  Does this prohibition still exists?

[superflawless]

Yes, I think because the event is held at the Speaker's Corner at Hong Lim Park. And that area has special concessions and restrictions. Singaporeans may demonstrate, hold exhibitions and performances, as well as being able to engage freely in political open-air public speeches, debates and discussions. As such, while foreigners can visit the park during days where there are no events, foreigners are not allowed to participate Pink Dot.

 

 

MHA noted that the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) community expresses its views on issues of concern to it during Pink Dot.

"The Government's general position has always been that foreign entities should not interfere in our domestic issues, especially political issues or controversial social issues with political overtones. These are political, social or moral choices for Singaporeans to decide for ourselves. LGBT issues are one such example.

"This is why under the rules governing the use of the Speakers' Corner, for events like Pink Dot, foreigners are not allowed to organise or speak at the events, or participate in demonstrations."

 

[Steve5380]

On 7/25/2023 at 10:40 PM, superflawless said:

 

"This is why under the rules governing the use of the Speakers' Corner, for events like Pink Dot, foreigners are not allowed to organise or speak at the events, or participate in demonstrations."

 

 

Oh,  I was not thinking about interfering in these crucial political social issues, not at all.   This is exclusively for you Singaporeans, of course!

 

My question was more like:  as a foreigner, during the Pink Dot can I just stand in the park, silently, quiet, motionless like a wax statue, with a blank expression in my face?  With only my chest moving in and out to breathe?

[keyboard]

3 hours ago, Steve5380 said:

 

Oh,  I was not thinking about interfering in these crucial political social issues, not at all.   This is exclusively for you Singaporeans, of course!

 

My question was more like:  as a foreigner, during the Pink Dot can I just stand in the park, silently, quiet, motionless like a wax statue, with a blank expression in my face?  With only my chest moving in and out to breathe?

Think before they started doing fencing for the event, yes, you can. Though now with that rule that they check Identity Cards (and check bags) before entry (like TSA), non-citizens/PR? are no longer allowed within the park. So they just stand outside the park on the pavement loh - but likely with traffic flow and our small pavements, they would not let you stand at the same location for long? Singapore pavements are not known to be big or long.

 

I wonder how it is defined as participating though, like if there's a riot, if you stand at the pavement and watch - are you still a neutral party since physically being there "might" encourage protestors.

 

There was an article about another group who tried to start another demonstration within the event (other than the protestors outside the event) - so quite a lot of things that is working behind the scenes to make things "not" happen.