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Covid Situation in SG discussion (compiled)


Guest Sianz

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On 2/26/2022 at 8:55 PM, lonelyglobe said:

Japan is going to allow business travellers to enter and they need to serve a 3 days quarantine. Taiwan will be cutting their quarantine from 14 days to 10 days. Allowing VTL without quarantine is as good as committing suicide.

 

Without VTL,  will omicron still come in?  Definitely, like taiwan,  it is still possible to get say 20 cases but which could be easier to trace and control the speed of spread, not possible when u r having 20,000 cases daily. 

 

Currently HK is having a omicron tsunami and SG cant wait to start a VTL,  so who is the one adding additional burden and stress to our health care workers? 

 

To sum up,  one of the main reason for VTL is:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.straitstimes.com/business/sias-earnings-bounce-back-in-oct-dec-2021-quarter&ved=2ahUKEwiA-83ksp32AhVp4HMBHTdSAdAQFnoECDgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw07_UXfVaxt5fp56akF_JP6

 

a) You would be right if HK had been in a better situation as Singapore, but surely it isn't even without VTL. 

 

The issue is that you cannot barr your own citizens from returning from overseas!

 

One major problematic (same as for HK) is the fact that many generations live in one space, which permits the virus to spread to more people than in other countries. 

 

b) Just look at Thailand that imposed long quarantine periods for any incoming travellers, but they are not in any better situation. 

 

 

As I said , I m not against implementing measures to curb the spread. I already gave proposals what could be done to slower the spread. 

 

Edited by singalion
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On 2/26/2022 at 9:11 PM, Guest Guest said:

 His first foray into politics caused the PAP to lose an entire GRC together with a seasoned minister along with it? Then he went to MOE and teachers have to start paying for their own parking among other issues?

 

So you're a teacher... 

😂

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On 2/26/2022 at 10:45 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

Oh! So 26k daily cases wasn't even the peak? More to come? Didn't some people  claimed that the numbers will be dropping after this and it will mark the end of some wave? But yet, that wasn't even the peak? 

 

Let's face it. The policymakers really have no clue, and they are just crossing their fingers and hoping for the best. 

Absolutely, how can anyone still believe the million dollar fortune teller? 

 

With 20,000 cases daily, any plan to deter the spread is too late,  instead,  we should just let 20k infect more and became 30k or 40k, then soon 50% of the population will get it. Very easy to achieve this,  just remove mask like in the west.

 

Of course, we can also compare ourselves to worst country eg HK,  that will make us feel we did much better.

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On 2/27/2022 at 9:29 AM, Nightingale said:

Daily death cases for the past few days went from 4 to 7 to 12 to 11 and 13 (as of yesterday).  Total cumulative cases went from 956 to 963 to 975 to 986 to 999 (as of yesterday).  999 is the call line for help.  How symbolic!

 

If you see any suspicious persons or articles call 999...

😂

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Covid-19 cases fall below 20,000 for fourth consecutive day, with 14,228 new infections reported

Published  27 Feb 2022

SINGAPORE - Covid-19 cases dropped below 20,000 for the fourth consecutive day on Sunday (Feb 27), as Singapore reported 14,228 new infections, down from 16,857 on Saturday.

There were 1,553 Covid-19 cases in hospital on Sunday, the same as the day before, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its nightly Covid-19 update.

The number of patients in the intensive care unit fell to 46, down from 50 on Saturday, while 214 patients required oxygen support.

Eight deaths were reported on Sunday.

 

Edited by singalion
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No doubt the cases has dropped for the past four days, but still in the 5 figure range. This is no joke n not acceptable for a small country like Sg. 

Keep on asking it's people not to overwhelm the heathcare system and what are they themselves doing to slow down the infections ? 

Wonder when will Sg see the figure drop to 4 figure again or even three figure?

Feel so hopeless as there is no more silver lining to be seen !

 

 

 

Edited by jlone
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Covid-19 cases fall for sixth consecutive day as S'pore records 13,544 new infections

 
Published  28 Feb 2022

SINGAPORE - A total of 13,544 new Covid-19 cases were reported on Monday (Feb 28), down from 14,228 infections on Sunday.

This is the sixth consecutive day that the number of daily new cases has fallen.

But the number of patients in hospital has increased.

There were 1,649 Covid-19 cases in hospital on Monday, up from 1,553 on Sunday, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its nightly update on case numbers.

The number of patients in the intensive care unit rose to 49, up from 46 on Sunday, while 221 patients required oxygen support.

Twelve deaths were reported on Monday.

 

 

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On 3/1/2022 at 5:15 PM, singalion said:

Covid-19 cases fall for sixth consecutive day as S'pore records 13,544 new infections

This is the sixth consecutive day that the number of daily new cases has fallen.

Don't you think this is self-deceiving in nature? We don't even mandate reporting if you are COVID-positive, so why bother with these infection numbers? What about the many who have not bothered to report their infections to MOH? And those who refuse to do an ART test, even if they display classic symptoms of COVID-19?

Слава Україні!

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On 3/1/2022 at 7:13 PM, sgmaven said:

Don't you think this is self-deceiving in nature? We don't even mandate reporting if you are COVID-positive, so why bother with these infection numbers? What about the many who have not bothered to report their infections to MOH? And those who refuse to do an ART test, even if they display classic symptoms of COVID-19?


totally agree, reporting the case number is a complete waste of time and they should focus on reporting the important metrics: ICU and death rates. 
 

only thing to note from the fact that the case number is likely much higher than being reported is that that would mean that the % of severe cases and deaths is even lower than published 

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On 3/1/2022 at 7:13 PM, sgmaven said:

Don't you think this is self-deceiving in nature? We don't even mandate reporting if you are COVID-positive, so why bother with these infection numbers? What about the many who have not bothered to report their infections to MOH? And those who refuse to do an ART test, even if they display classic symptoms of COVID-19?

 

For your info, my focus has never been the total infection numbers.

Only due to reporting in the media from some sort of completeness in the numbers I mention the first part.

 

If you did not note, what I always indicated in bold numbers.

 

The numbers of hospitalised people and in ICU can give an indication on the upcoming death numbers in the next days.

 

Even declining infection numbers won't mean there will be less ICU or death cases as it takes some time for those latter numbers to decline.

 

 

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On 3/1/2022 at 9:51 PM, Guest Wtf said:


totally agree, reporting the case number is a complete waste of time and they should focus on reporting the important metrics: ICU and death rates. 
 

only thing to note from the fact that the case number is likely much higher than being reported is that that would mean that the % of severe cases and deaths is even lower than published 


actually, they should go one step further and stop reporting any case numbers and instead report a daily breakdown of ALL deaths and ALL of the causes - not just covid - and the same for ALL in ICU. 

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Guest Guest
On 3/1/2022 at 9:51 PM, Guest Wtf said:


totally agree, reporting the case number is a complete waste of time and they should focus on reporting the important metrics: ICU and death rates. 
 

only thing to note from the fact that the case number is likely much higher than being reported is that that would mean that the % of severe cases and deaths is even lower than published 

 

On 3/1/2022 at 11:08 PM, Guest Wtf said:


actually, they should go one step further and stop reporting any case numbers and instead report a daily breakdown of ALL deaths and ALL of the causes - not just covid - and the same for ALL in ICU. 

 

Louise on Twitter: "Today, I want to be an #ostrich, I want to bury my head  in the sand. #mentalhealth #anxiety #depression #MentalHealthAwareness #zoo  #work https://t.co/YgwsbMLpmH" / Twitter

 

They say the ostrich's eye is bigger than its brain. Will someone whose eye is bigger than his peabrain going to ask what is the relevance of the above picture in relation to his posts?

 

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Someone wrote here that Singapore adheres to the WHO regulations.

 

As long as WHO calls Covid 19 a pandemic, the numbers need to be reported (at least to WHO).

 

 

Second, it is not as if high infection numbers don't have any effect.

 

Would people go on with their daily life as per normal and as if there is no virus running around and not considering the spread of Covid if the infection numbers are reported on the high amount?

You might reduce social activity to the minimum, maybe just go grocery shopping and back home and keep physical social contacts at bay.

 

And look at the vulnerable people who are at a much higher risk even after 2 vaccinations and booster.

For them it is a warning to take much more precaution.

 

I remember I read a Minister saying just some days back that these vulnerable should stay home and keep social activity at a low profile. 

 

It is very selfish to look at this pandemic just from the angle of a young fit person in the 20s or 30s.

 

 

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Guest Wide Berth
On 3/1/2022 at 9:51 PM, Guest Wtf said:


totally agree, reporting the case number is a complete waste of time and they should focus on reporting the important metrics: ICU and death rates. 
 

only thing to note from the fact that the case number is likely much higher than being reported is that that would mean that the % of severe cases and deaths is even lower than published 


Yes, while at that, they should do more arithmetic gymnastics to fit their narrative that we should “live with covid” and we should not worry about 10,000+ to 20,000+ daily cases.

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Guest Wide Berth
On 3/1/2022 at 11:08 PM, Guest Wtf said:


actually, they should go one step further and stop reporting any case numbers and instead report a daily breakdown of ALL deaths and ALL of the causes - not just covid - and the same for ALL in ICU. 


Yup, and US can list Singapore covid status as unknown again like what US did last year. So much for transparency. 
 

To be honest, they should stop VTLs, stop dine-in, restrict non-essential services for 6-9months to bring down the covid cases to about 100per day. 

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Frankly, the government should retire the TraceTogether system, since it no longer is doing anything. It is evident that MOH no longer uses the data for contact tracing or even issuing HRNs.

 

I know of a person, whose father was diagnosed with COVID. The father was asked to fill in a list of close contacts, who listed his wife, but he neglected to list his son, who lives in the same home (they share the same home address according to NRIC too). HRN was then issued to his wife, but not his son. What is the point of the HRN system, if such omissions can be made?

Слава Україні!

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On 3/2/2022 at 12:33 AM, Guest Wide Berth said:


Yup, and US can list Singapore covid status as unknown again like what US did last year. So much for transparency. 
 

To be honest, they should stop VTLs, stop dine-in, restrict non-essential services for 6-9months to bring down the covid cases to about 100per day. 


To be honest, when are you going to understand that your proposal is not going to get you to about 100 per day? If you want that, you need to ask for a lockdown for 6-9 months. . 

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On 3/1/2022 at 11:31 PM, singalion said:

Someone wrote here that Singapore adheres to the WHO regulations.

 

As long as WHO calls Covid 19 a pandemic, the numbers need to be reported (at least to WHO).

 

 

Second, it is not as if high infection numbers don't have any effect.

 

Would people go on with their daily life as per normal and as if there is no virus running around and not considering the spread of Covid if the infection numbers are reported on the high amount?

You might reduce social activity to the minimum, maybe just go grocery shopping and back home and keep physical social contacts at bay.

 

And look at the vulnerable people who are at a much higher risk even after 2 vaccinations and booster.

For them it is a warning to take much more precaution.

 

I remember I read a Minister saying just some days back that these vulnerable should stay home and keep social activity at a low profile. 

 

It is very selfish to look at this pandemic just from the angle of a young fit person in the 20s or 30s.

 

 


so you support my idea of a dashboard of all deaths and hospitalization causes then? So vulnerable people can be aware of all risks to health. 

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Guest Guest
On 3/2/2022 at 7:53 AM, Guest Wtf said:


To be honest, when are you going to understand that your proposal is not going to get you to about 100 per day? If you want that, you need to ask for a lockdown for 6-9 months. . 

 

Yeah, right. Go ahead and Ignore the fact that the suggestion was successfully used in the past to accomplish less than 100 cases a day, and still used even now in NZ and HK despite the Omicron "surge". 

 

 

On 3/2/2022 at 7:55 AM, Guest Wtf said:


so you support my idea of a dashboard of all deaths and hospitalization causes then? So vulnerable people can be aware of all risks to health. 

 

How vulnerable people can be made aware of all risks to health is through the revealing of all info to them, including the number of daily community cases! Seriously, are you born stupid, or did the vaccination do something to your brain? What's going to happen if you get COVID (or maybe again?) and suffer from further long-COVID brain impairment? 

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On 3/2/2022 at 8:47 AM, Guest Guest said:

 

Yeah, right. Go ahead and Ignore the fact that the suggestion was successfully used in the past to accomplish less than 100 cases a day, and still used even now in NZ and HK despite the Omicron "surge". 

 

 

 

How vulnerable people can be made aware of all risks to health is through the revealing of all info to them, including the number of daily community cases! Seriously, are you born stupid, or did the vaccination do something to your brain? What's going to happen if you get COVID (or maybe again?) and suffer from further long-COVID brain impairment? 


Try reading some current news on how covid is being handled in NZ and HK before making ridiculous statements - or is your bunker still stuck in that time warp thing where you still think it is 2020? 
 

Go and look at their current case numbers and restrictions and tell me where either of them is using closing the border and stopping dine in to reach 100 cases a day. 
 

and again, why do you see only one risk to the health of people: covid. Why don’t you care about all the other people dying every day - shouldn’t we know more about what they have died from and take more measures to protect them? I love the way you priorities some lives above others. 

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Guest Wide Berth
On 3/2/2022 at 7:53 AM, Guest Wtf said:


To be honest, when are you going to understand that your proposal is not going to get you to about 100 per day? If you want that, you need to ask for a lockdown for 6-9 months. . 


To be honest, when are you going to understand if we don’t try to impose no dine-in, reduce VTL quota by 90% or suspend it and restrict non-essential services by 6-9months we will never know. 
 

What we know now is we are seeing 10,000+ to 20,000+ people getting infected with covid on daily basis. This is unacceptable especially we have only 5.5million. On per capita basis, it is 0.3% of population getting infected daily. 

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Guest Wide Berth
On 3/2/2022 at 7:55 AM, Guest Wtf said:


so you support my idea of a dashboard of all deaths and hospitalization causes then? So vulnerable people can be aware of all risks to health. 


Ya, the dashboard should include the daily covid cases and breakdown of whether they are community or imported via VTLs land, air or other travel arrangements. They should also include how many newly infected are actually getting it second or third or Nth no of times. They should also include those apparent community cases, how many had travelled overseas in last 7days, 14days, 28days etc. 

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Guest Fuck covid
On 3/2/2022 at 1:10 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:


Ya, the dashboard should include the daily covid cases and breakdown of whether they are community or imported via VTLs land, air or other travel arrangements. They should also include how many newly infected are actually getting it second or third or Nth no of times. They should also include those apparent community cases, how many had travelled overseas in last 7days, 14days, 28days etc. 

Lol, we are on the way to treating COVID-19 as endemic. These stupid dashboards listed by you will make no sense at all.

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Guest Fuck covid
On 3/2/2022 at 10:19 AM, Guest Wtf said:


Try reading some current news on how covid is being handled in NZ and HK before making ridiculous statements - or is your bunker still stuck in that time warp thing where you still think it is 2020? 
 

Go and look at their current case numbers and restrictions and tell me where either of them is using closing the border and stopping dine in to reach 100 cases a day. 
 

and again, why do you see only one risk to the health of people: covid. Why don’t you care about all the other people dying every day - shouldn’t we know more about what they have died from and take more measures to protect them? I love the way you priorities some lives above others. 

You should take the next flight to Hong Kong. You are gonna love it there!

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Guest Fuck covid
On 3/2/2022 at 1:02 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:


To be honest, when are you going to understand if we don’t try to impose no dine-in, reduce VTL quota by 90% or suspend it and restrict non-essential services by 6-9months we will never know. 
 

What we know now is we are seeing 10,000+ to 20,000+ people getting infected with covid on daily basis. This is unacceptable especially we have only 5.5million. On per capita basis, it is 0.3% of population getting infected daily. 

You should take the next flight to Hong Kong. You are gonna love it there!

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Guest Guest
On 3/2/2022 at 10:19 AM, Guest Wtf said:


Try reading some current news on how covid is being handled in NZ and HK before making ridiculous statements - or is your bunker still stuck in that time warp thing where you still think it is 2020? 
 

Go and look at their current case numbers and restrictions and tell me where either of them is using closing the border and stopping dine in to reach 100 cases a day. 
 

and again, why do you see only one risk to the health of people: covid. Why don’t you care about all the other people dying every day - shouldn’t we know more about what they have died from and take more measures to protect them? I love the way you priorities some lives above others. 

 

HK and NZ seems to be dealing with it fantastically well. And even if they are not, they are still doing much better than Singapore. Whose news are you reading?

 

You cannot even care about the COVID deaths going on now, and you want others to care about other types of deaths? What are you? A hypocrite? 

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On 3/2/2022 at 1:27 PM, Guest Fuck covid said:

You should take the next flight to Hong Kong. You are gonna love it there!


i don’t think you meant me 😂 

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On 3/2/2022 at 1:10 PM, Guest Wide Berth said:


Ya, the dashboard should include the daily covid cases and breakdown of whether they are community or imported via VTLs land, air or other travel arrangements. They should also include how many newly infected are actually getting it second or third or Nth no of times. They should also include those apparent community cases, how many had travelled overseas in last 7days, 14days, 28days etc. 


With each post you make, you basically confirm that you don’t really care that much about covid cases l but that you are a petty, jealous person who is aggrieved by the fact that other people are travelling or eating out. Or you are just xenophobic. 
 

otherwise, to reach your previous target, you would be advocating for measures that might make a real difference to case numbers by seriously inconveniencing and limiting what anyone living in Singapore can do. 
 

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Guest Fuck covid
On 3/2/2022 at 2:03 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

HK and NZ seems to be dealing with it fantastically well. And even if they are not, they are still doing much better than Singapore. Whose news are you reading?

 

You cannot even care about the COVID deaths going on now, and you want others to care about other types of deaths? What are you? A hypocrite? 

Lol, you should update yourself: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-03-01/hong-kong-virus-deaths-among-world-s-worst-on-at-risk-elderly

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Guest Fuck covid
On 3/2/2022 at 2:28 PM, Guest ffffffff said:

Anyone notice the frequent wailing of ambulance sirens on the road?

Not at all. Very peaceful in my neighbourhood.

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On 3/2/2022 at 2:28 PM, Guest ffffffff said:

Anyone notice the frequent wailing of ambulance sirens on the road?


nope. Maybe you should check you are not hearing things or imagining it. 

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Guest Guest
On 3/2/2022 at 2:08 PM, Guest Wtf said:


With each post you make, you basically confirm that you don’t really care that much about covid cases l but that you are a petty, jealous person who is aggrieved by the fact that other people are travelling or eating out. Or you are just xenophobic. 
 

otherwise, to reach your previous target, you would be advocating for measures that might make a real difference to case numbers by seriously inconveniencing and limiting what anyone living in Singapore can do. 
 

I care about the lives of my fellow countrymen. I care about the well-being of the pioneer generation who built the nation from the ground up. 

But you're only concerned about opening up so that you can bring your village here.

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On 3/2/2022 at 2:03 PM, Guest Guest said:

 

HK and NZ seems to be dealing with it fantastically well. And even if they are not, they are still doing much better than Singapore. Whose news are you reading?

 

You cannot even care about the COVID deaths going on now, and you want others to care about other types of deaths? What are you? A hypocrite? 


HK ‘dealing with it fantastically well’?!? Hahahhahahhhahaha…. Wow, seriously, thanks for the lolz and clear sign that are living in an alternate reality. New Zealand and Hong Kong are both logging over 20k cases per day currently.

 

On 3/2/2022 at 3:20 PM, Guest Fuck covid said:


exactly! 

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On 3/2/2022 at 3:29 PM, Guest Guest said:

I care about the lives of my fellow countrymen. I care about the well-being of the pioneer generation who built the nation from the ground up. 

But you're only concerned about opening up so that you can bring your village here.


1,030 people have died from covid.
 

Approximately 40,000+ additional people died in Singapore in that same timeframe, including many from the pioneer generation. 
 

So it might help more if you advocated for measures to protect the larger number of people. 

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Guest Guest
On 3/2/2022 at 3:44 PM, Guest Wtf said:


1,030 people have died from covid.
 

Approximately 40,000+ additional people died in Singapore in that same timeframe, including many from the pioneer generation. 
 

So it might help more if you advocated for measures to protect the larger number of people. 

where is your sauce of 40,000+ additional deaths? don't spread fake news

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On 3/2/2022 at 3:50 PM, Guest Guest said:

where is your sauce of 40,000+ additional deaths? don't spread fake news

 

Can you really not read?

 

On average, around 21,000 people die every single year in Singapore. The ‘additional’ in my sentence refers to those deaths that are in addition to the 1,030 covid deaths. The time period for covid deaths is about two years, so 40,000 additional deaths during that time would be about right, given the data available:
 

https://www.healthhub.sg/a-z/health-statistics/4/principal-causes-of-death

 

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On 3/2/2022 at 7:55 AM, Guest Wtf said:


so you support my idea of a dashboard of all deaths and hospitalization causes then? So vulnerable people can be aware of all risks to health. 

 

No, we should not confuse people.

 

The pandemic is called Covid-19 .

 

If someone dies from heart failure, then such a cause of death does not infect other people and may have not infected other people prior to being submitted to hospital.

There is a difference between usual causes of death and infectious diseases.

 

If you had read my other earlier post on why I support the total covid infections numbers to be published then you had known my point of view.

 

 

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On 3/2/2022 at 6:36 PM, singalion said:

 

No, we should not confuse people.

 

The pandemic is called Covid-19 .

 

If someone dies from heart failure, then such a cause of death does not infect other people and may have not infected other people prior to being submitted to hospital.

There is a difference between usual causes of death and infectious diseases.

 

If you had read my other earlier post on why I support the total covid infections numbers to be published then you had known my point of view.

 

 


where does pneumonia sit in your proposal? 

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Guest ffffffff
On 3/2/2022 at 3:24 PM, Guest Wtf said:


nope. Maybe you should check you are not hearing things or imagining it. 

You really ARE WTF. Think the ambulance is trying to find you.

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S'pore reports 24,080 new Covid-19 cases, 1,726 patients hospitalised

 

Published 1 Mar 2022, 10:32 pm SGT

SINGAPORE - A total of 24,080 new Covid-19 cases were reported on Tuesday (March 1), up from 13,544 infections on Monday.

This figure is the highest since the record high of 26,032 cases reported last Tuesday.

 

There were 1,726 patients in hospital on Tuesday, up from 1,649 on Monday, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its nightly update on case numbers.

The number of patients in the intensive care unit rose to 53, up from 49 on Monday, while 242 patients required oxygen support.

 
 

Eleven deaths were reported on Tuesday.

 

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Guest Fuck covid
On 3/2/2022 at 9:58 PM, jlone said:

Sg is doomed ! 

Yes, only because of panicking people like you who are rushing to A&E with no symptoms at all, just because they fear they have COVID

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Guest Fuck covid
On 3/2/2022 at 8:57 PM, singalion said:

S'pore reports 24,080 new Covid-19 cases, 1,726 patients hospitalised

 

Published 1 Mar 2022, 10:32 pm SGT

SINGAPORE - A total of 24,080 new Covid-19 cases were reported on Tuesday (March 1), up from 13,544 infections on Monday.

This figure is the highest since the record high of 26,032 cases reported last Tuesday.

 

There were 1,726 patients in hospital on Tuesday, up from 1,649 on Monday, the Ministry of Health (MOH) said in its nightly update on case numbers.

The number of patients in the intensive care unit rose to 53, up from 49 on Monday, while 242 patients required oxygen support.

 
 

Eleven deaths were reported on Tuesday.

 

You are 24 hours late, btw do you know everyone can read this in CNA or ST websites( unless your intention is to create panic among some people here with those big numbers) ?

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Guest Guest
On 3/2/2022 at 3:20 PM, Guest Fuck covid said:

 

On 3/2/2022 at 3:33 PM, Guest Wtf said:


HK ‘dealing with it fantastically well’?!? Hahahhahahhhahaha…. Wow, seriously, thanks for the lolz and clear sign that are living in an alternate reality. New Zealand and Hong Kong are both logging over 20k cases per day currently.

 


exactly! 

 

Yes, HK and NZ dealt with the COVID control extremely well, such that even with the surge in the Omicron cases, they started with a low count and still ended up with a lower case count and lower death count than Singapore.

 

And as a matter of fact, thank you for pointing out the recent surge in the HK and NZ cases! Because it only goes to prove one thing: the one and only proven way to control the surge of the Omicron variant and any more new variant is to TIGHTEN THE CONTROLS EVEN FURTHER! 

 

No expenses should be spared to save human lives. If anyone is to die, it should be those who wanted to open the economy for their own selfish purposes! 

 

LOL! Thank you for letting us know that the measures in NZ and HK are not even good enough, just so that you can have an excuse to tell us to give up the fight and the resistance against COVID! You just shot into your own goal here! And like what was mentioned before, you really cast doubt on yourself as to whom your loyalty lies with.

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