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Taiwan, one of the unresolved issues in East Asia...


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On 5/2/2022 at 11:49 PM, sgmaven said:

 

If you thought that the Australian economy was all about food, then you are very much mistaken.

 

image.thumb.png.b4880883b1fb650c11e1f2742128377e.png

 

Meat and other foodstuff only account for less than 10% of their exports.

 

I never thought or wrote that the Australian economy is all about food.  Why are you so desperate to prove me wrong?

 

The 10.7% petroleum gas, Australia can export to anywhere in the world.  The 14.6% coal briquettes it better keeps for itself (too polluting) and use them in barbeque pits.  The 31.8% iron ore could go to an America who is revamping its steel manufacturing.  And the 7.1% of gold?   I can take it, if my price is accepted.

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:01 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

I never thought or wrote that the Australian economy is all about food.  Why are you so desperate to prove me wrong?

 

The 10.7% petroleum gas, Australia can export to anywhere in the world.  The 14.6% coal briquettes it better keeps for itself (too polluting) and use them in barbeque pits.  The 31.8% iron ore could go to an America who is revamping its steel manufacturing.  And the 7.1% of gold?   I can take it, if my price is accepted.

 

Suspecting the next malevolent, malicious attacker? 

 

Would you be able to simply accept  that other members just intend to get certain facts correct but don't want to "attack" you. 

 

 

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:01 PM, Steve5380 said:

The 14.6% coal briquettes it better keeps for itself (too polluting) and use them in barbeque pits.

Why do you insist on confusing mineral coal (mined as fuel from the earth), with charcoal (made mainly from incomplete combustion of wood) combustion of used for barbecue pits?

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On 5/3/2022 at 10:16 AM, sgmaven said:

Why do you insist on confusing mineral coal (mined as fuel from the earth), with charcoal (made mainly from incomplete combustion of wood) combustion of used for barbecue pits?

 

Because I am not an expert anymore in fuel types for barbeque pits.  I have a nice pit that burns charcoal but have not used for many years.  Now I use a grill with propane gas.   So I rectify:  instead of barbeque pits,  Australia should use its briquettes in foundries and to give to blacksmiths. 

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On 5/3/2022 at 9:16 AM, singalion said:

 

Suspecting the next malevolent, malicious attacker? 

 

Would you be able to simply accept  that other members just intend to get certain facts correct but don't want to "attack" you. 

 

 

 

But...  my writing that Australia's economy is all about food...   is not a certain fact.  

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On 5/3/2022 at 3:42 AM, Steve5380 said:

Even the No.1 economy in the world is only a fraction ( one fourth ) of world's economy.  The export of food products from Australia to China are surely very welcomed elsewhere, given the food shortage caused by the Ukraine war.

Oh well... You didn't specifically say that, but you were talking about even the US economy only accounting for a quarter of the world's economy, then talking about Aussie food exports... If you were more on point, you would talk more about their exports from the "resources" sector, which include iron ore and coal.

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On 5/4/2022 at 4:11 PM, And then said:

 

That is exactly the Chinese hypocrisy.

 

Keeping mum, that they silently ordered more supplies from Australia.

 

One of the reasons, why China is trying not siding with anyone at the Ukraine war is the fact that China requires certain imports from both countries. Ukraine on the food sector and industrial components, Russia for energy imports (mainly).

Finding the right balance... not to offend any side, will be the tricky part...

 

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On 5/4/2022 at 5:05 AM, singalion said:

 

One of the reasons, why China is trying not siding with anyone at the Ukraine war is the fact that China requires certain imports from both countries. Ukraine on the food sector and industrial components, Russia for energy imports (mainly).

Finding the right balance... not to offend any side, will be the tricky part...

 

 

You are right in that China relies on the energy imports from Russia.  But had it taken the moral position of dissuading Putin from starting the unnecessary war, this would not have made China an "enemy" of Russia.  And in any case, Russia provides China with hydrocarbons not because it is generous, but because it is their business to sell them.

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You and I know that no country really takes the "moral position" unless it is to their advantage... So let's just be fair to China there. They are being shrewd, knowing after all that the West will never truly accept them as equals.

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On 5/4/2022 at 1:13 PM, sgmaven said:

You and I know that no country really takes the "moral position" unless it is to their advantage... So let's just be fair to China there. They are being shrewd, knowing after all that the West will never truly accept them as equals.

 

Your post shows how easy it is to turn cynical. 

 

Cynical is to estimate that none of the NATO nations who are going out of their way to support Ukraine do it for moral reasons, but they are acting to their advantage.

 

Also cynical is to estimate that the West will never accept China as their equals.  But here, there is indeed a true difference, an inequality: many Chinese have slanted eyes,  while they are not common in the West.

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Someone is either truly naïve, or trying hard to ignore facts.

 

Just like how the Democrats in the US claim to want to help the poor, but have the highest homeless rates in the many states considered Democrat strongholds.

 

If I am cynical about why the West is helping Ukraine, then name me the NATO nation who is "going out of its way to support the Ukraine" for purely moral reasons.

 

I never said that the West would never accept China as equals due to the difference in race, by the way. @Steve5380came up with that theory/assumption. I meant that they would never accept China, just like they never really accepted Russia (post-USSR). You might then surmise that it is due to the political systems, but I also think that the West doesn't even view Japan in the same way that they view their fellow NATO members, even if some NATO members cause a lot of problems.

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On 5/4/2022 at 2:52 PM, sgmaven said:

Someone is either truly naïve, or trying hard to ignore facts.

 

Just like how the Democrats in the US claim to want to help the poor, but have the highest homeless rates in the many states considered Democrat strongholds.

 

If I am cynical about why the West is helping Ukraine, then name me the NATO nation who is "going out of its way to support the Ukraine" for purely moral reasons.

 

I never said that the West would never accept China as equals due to the difference in race, by the way. @Steve5380came up with that theory/assumption. I meant that they would never accept China, just like they never really accepted Russia (post-USSR). You might then surmise that it is due to the political systems, but I also think that the West doesn't even view Japan in the same way that they view their fellow NATO members, even if some NATO members cause a lot of problems.

 

Someone seems to naively think that he is in possession of "the facts".

 

Homelessness is just one indicator of poverty.  From the Internet:

 

"These states and territories have the highest percentages of poverty in the country: Mississippi, Louisiana, New Mexico, Kentucky, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, the District of Columbia, South Carolina, and Georgia."

 

Of these 10 states,  Mississippi, Louisiana, Kentucky, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama and South Carolina are all Republican, "red states".  7 out of 10 states with highest poverty are... REPUBLICAN,  not Democrats.

 

Germany has radically changed its policies to help the Ukrainians, by sending them weapons and cutting gas supplies from Russia.  Switzerland has changed its policies by freezing Russian assets.  Many other states are boycotting the Russian oil against their interests, for solidarity with Ukraine. 

 

The West surely views Japan in no lesser terms than it views Singapore.  There is a lot of respect for Japan and its inhabitants.  And if they are not accepting Russia...  well...  there are OBVIOUS reasons today,  that have nothing to do with racism.  If the West is not so accepting of Russia and China it is due to the belligerent attitude of their governments, not because of who they are. 

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Guest What?

Look like all the Chao Ang Mo here are  having a good time condemning China. Should ban them completely.

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The war in the Ukraine has garnered so much media attention, partly because it is in Europe. It is a "white person's war". Compare that with the wars that do not involve any whites, you can see the difference in attention it gets.

 

It is similar to the Western media's fixation of the Jewish Holocaust in WW2. Sure, many Jews did die under the despicable acts of the Nazis, but many more died in Asia under the Japanese. What the Japanese did, was just as cruel, or even worse than the Nazis. The sorts of biological experiments, equally heinous. However, no one in the West really mentions that.

 

Can you then wonder why the Asians think that the West does not see Asia as equal?

 

The European countries did change policies, etc. in response to the conflict in the Ukraine. However, do you think it is based purely on moral grounds? Or is it because they know that if they let Russia get away with what they did, Poland and the Baltic states would probably be next?

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The war in Ukraine as garnered so much attention because it exposes openly so much evil, and because it is so clearly an unjustified attack. 

 

But I am convinced that other previous conflicts were equally evil, like the destruction of cities during WWII,  and, as mentioned above,  the invasion of Manchuria by Japan,  this last one driven by the Japanese going after natural resources they didn't have, something extremely miserable. 

 

One can note the similarity between conflicts:  the WWII driven by the ambition of an "empire of 1000 years",  the ambition of the Japanese empire, and now Putin's dream of a new Russia empire.  The sick ambition of certain individuals to raise above the rest of humanity for their personal glory.  Why doesn't God punish these followers of the devil in the same way he punished the builders of the tower of Babel?   Maybe by forcing the projectiles they shoot on others turn around and come back to them?  

 

I don't want to upset the poster who wrote that we Ang Mohs enjoy condemning China,  but...  doesn't the PRC have a similar ambition to dominate the world,  and get hold of Taiwan in the process?  Otherwise, what they need Taiwan for?  Don't they have the money to pacifically pay TSMC for semiconductors?

.

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Guest Biology connections
On 5/5/2022 at 10:43 PM, Steve5380 said:

  but...  doesn't the PRC have a similar ambition to dominate the world,  and get hold of Taiwan in the process?  Otherwise, what they need Taiwan for?  Don't they have the money to pacifically pay TSMC for semiconductors?

.

Did your body ask why it needs a pair of legs? Each part of your body should be separated and become independent.

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On 5/5/2022 at 9:51 AM, Guest Biology connections said:

Did your body ask why it needs a pair of legs? Each part of your body should be separated and become independent.

 

LOL!  If the PRC and Taiwan were the two legs of "one China",  this poor creature would be seriously deformed, and could only seriously limp.

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Guest huh?
On 5/5/2022 at 10:59 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

LOL!  If the PRC and Taiwan were the two legs of "one China",  this poor creature would be seriously deformed, and could only seriously limp.

Deformed, limpy?  China is hugely indebted to you huh?

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On 5/5/2022 at 10:19 AM, Guest huh? said:

Deformed, limpy?  China is hugely indebted to you huh?

 

Yes, how can this poor creature move on a huge PRC leg alternating with a tiny Taiwan leg?

 

And yes, China is hugely indebted to America from us buying so much of their stuff, while it stealing so much of our technology and intellectual property.

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On 5/5/2022 at 3:28 AM, Steve5380 said:

These states and territories have the highest percentages of poverty in the country: Mississippi, Louisiana, New Mexico, Kentucky, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama, the District of Columbia, South Carolina, and Georgia.

 

Of these 10 states,  Mississippi, Louisiana, Kentucky, Arkansas, West Virginia, Alabama and South Carolina are all Republican, "red states".  7 out of 10 states with highest poverty are... REPUBLICAN,  not Democrats.

Ah! But you conveniently forget that there had been endemic poverty in these states for well over a century if not a great deal longer. And which party had a lock on the politics of these states until around 1970? The DEMOCRATS. And what did they to to alleviate the poverty? Virtually nothing.

 

On 5/5/2022 at 9:43 PM, Steve5380 said:

But I am convinced that other previous conflicts were equally evil, like the destruction of cities during WWII,  and, as mentioned above,  the invasion of Manchuria by Japan,  this last one driven by the Japanese going after natural resources they didn't have, something extremely miserable.

Here I agree. The Japanese atrocities went far beyond the invasion of Manchuria and the hideous medical experiments on some of the Chinese population. The Rape of Nanjing is one of the greatest horror stories of any war. The three month bombing of Shanghai was similarly one of the worst battles of the war. Elsewhere the Bataan Death March and the general treatment throughout Asia of prisoners of war was a dreadful indictment on the Japanese war machine. We should never forget that Japan has never formally apologised for those atrocities, whereas the Germans did so soon after the war and have worked hard to rehabilitate their reputation.

 

I say this as someone who, perhaps oddly, love Japan and the Japanese I have met and worked with. Perhaps I am like my father. Barely out of his teens he enlisted in the British army in 1939 and was sent to France. Everyone has heard of Dunkirk when hundreds of thousands of isolated British troops were safely evacuated from French beaches. Hardly anyone knows about St. Valery. When the British troops were sent to France, a small group was despatched west to the town of St. Valery. With the Germans threatening to slaughter the British, Churchill ordered the Dunkirk evacuation. But there were no ships available to evacuate those stuck at St. Valery. My father was one of those at St. Valery. He then spent 5 years in prisoner of war camps before being freed by the Soviet forces.

 

I always assumed my father would be very anti-German. Perhaps surprisingly, he was not. The opposite in fact. Although appalled by the war and the Nazi horrors, he always had great admiration for the Germans for the way they dragged themselves up after the war and made their country the strongest in Europe.

 

On 5/5/2022 at 9:43 PM, Steve5380 said:

I don't want to upset the poster who wrote that we Ang Mohs enjoy condemning China,  but...  doesn't the PRC have a similar ambition to dominate the world,  and get hold of Taiwan in the process? 

On what basis do you suggest that China has an ambition to dominate the world. Militarily China has never been an expansionist power. China's aim is absolutely to secure its borders so that the rape by colonial powers in the 19th and 20th centuries can never happen again. Whether we like it or not, that is the reason for its actions in Tibet, Xinjiang and its repeated comments about taking back Taiwan.

 

Economically it is a different matter and it certainly wishes to extend its influence well beyond its borders. And it wants to prove that its system of governance is superior to that of the other superpower, the USA.

 

Let's also never forget that when the USA recommenced relations with Mao's China in 1971, it did so in full knowledge that it would have to help China rebuild after the disastrous two decades of Mao's rule. China's rise was primarily due to the USA. But as China developed, the USA took its eye well and truly off the ball and allowed it to get away with practices it now condemns. Another US mistake!

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It is interesting how certain populations react from their defeats in admirable ways.

 

I think that the Japanese deserve respect for the way they recovered from their defeat in WWII and their two atomic bombs on their heads, and became one of the strongest economies,  while renouncing to violence and embracing pacifism,  something worth more than mere apologies.

 

The Germans acted in a similar way, with their Economic Miracle and pacifism, and deserve equal respect.

 

And then,  the Jews reacted to the Holocaust not by disappearing from sight but by building amazing strength with their state Israel.  I am totally opposed to their abuses of Zionism and their borderline inhumane treatment of weaker populations, but I recognize that they fought hard and took opportunities to establish an outstanding military strength. 

 

There is much positive worth in these populations,  which I had the opportunity to observe in the community of my German, Jewish family.

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On 5/5/2022 at 2:24 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Your post shows how easy it is to turn cynical. 

 

Cynical is to estimate that none of the NATO nations who are going out of their way to support Ukraine do it for moral reasons, but they are acting to their advantage.

 

Also cynical is to estimate that the West will never accept China as their equals.  But here, there is indeed a true difference, an inequality: many Chinese have slanted eyes,  while they are not common in the West.

 

Steve, this post was surely not a masterpiece of tolerance.

 

At other threads you claim to be tolerant and inclusive.

 

But, reading your posts, you seem to be stuck in some racial lenses and preconceived concepts of seeing the world and it's people.

 

If you can't escape your prejudices then please don't claim that you are not racist.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/5/2022 at 4:02 PM, sgmaven said:

The war in the Ukraine has garnered so much media attention, partly because it is in Europe. It is a "white person's war". Compare that with the wars that do not involve any whites, you can see the difference in attention it gets.

 

It is similar to the Western media's fixation of the Jewish Holocaust in WW2. Sure, many Jews did die under the despicable acts of the Nazis, but many more died in Asia under the Japanese. What the Japanese did, was just as cruel, or even worse than the Nazis. The sorts of biological experiments, equally heinous. However, no one in the West really mentions that.

 

Can you then wonder why the Asians think that the West does not see Asia as equal?

 

The European countries did change policies, etc. in response to the conflict in the Ukraine. However, do you think it is based purely on moral grounds? Or is it because they know that if they let Russia get away with what they did, Poland and the Baltic states would probably be next?

 

The turf around your house is always closer to you.

 

Note that media and news was not as spread in 1940s compared to times after. People did not watch news on TV in those days. In many countries news was presented in cinemas, before your movie started.

 

Access to information was far more limited.

 

Also ask the generation of "war kids", most of them were lucky to have gone through a decent school but note that the most recent events in the world during their generation was not part of their curriculum. Talk to those grandmothers and grandfathers, they mostly just kept quiet about these times and often didn't even have knowledge.

 

What happened in Asia by the Japanese was not as spread as the news "nearer to your turf".

 

Most of these historical parts of Asia has just never be made known to Europeans or Americans. I don't think it has something to do with equality or seeing Asians as equal or less equal.

 

The European Union is quite focused on interacting with Asia nowadays. Just look how much they spent in cultural exchanges in plenty of Asian countries.

 

 

Edited by singalion
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Posted (edited)
On 5/6/2022 at 11:05 AM, InBangkok said:

Ah! But you conveniently forget that there had been endemic poverty in these states for well over a century if not a great deal longer. And which party had a lock on the politics of these states until around 1970? The DEMOCRATS. And what did they to to alleviate the poverty? Virtually nothing.

 

the problem in the US is that mostly prominently rich people go into politics and not the true commoners.

 

If you look at European countries, in most cases there are the everyday people (maybe slightly a bit more educated than the average Joe) that enter politics and go into parliaments.

 

The US is stuck in a rich people mindset forgetting the poor.

 

Take time for a research to see who sits in the US House and Senate.

 

This rich people are selfish and don't have a drive to help the poorer parts of society.

 

 

Just look at the attitude of those rich people in the US:

 

Leona Helmsley

Leona Helmsley will always be remembered for one of the most arrogant statements ever uttered: "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes".

 

 

Despite the Helmsleys' net worth totalling over $1 billion, they were known for disputing payments to contractors and vendors. In 1983, the Helmsleys bought Dunnellen Hall, a 21-room mansion in Greenwich, Connecticut, to use as a weekend retreat. The property cost $11 million but the Helmsleys wanted to make it even more luxurious. The work included a $1 million dance floor, a silver clock and a mahogany card table.[16] The remodeling bills came to $8 million, which the Helmsleys were loath to pay. A group of contractors sued the Helmsleys for non-payment and the Helmsleys eventually paid off most of the debt owed to the contractors.

 

In 1985, during court proceedings in relation to the lawsuit, the contractors revealed that most of their work was being illegally billed to the Helmsleys' hotels as business expenses. The contractors sent a stack of the falsified invoices to the New York Post to prove that the Helmsleys were trying to avoid tax liabilities. The resulting Post story led to a federal criminal investigation. Jeremiah McCarthy, the Helmsleys' executive engineer, also alleged that Leona repeatedly demanded that he sign invoices to bill personal expenses to the Helmsley-Spear and, when McCarthy declined to do so, exploded with tyrannical outbursts, shouting, "You're not my fucking partner! You'll sign what I tell you to sign."[21] In 1988, then-U.S. Attorney Rudy Giuliani indicted the Helmsleys and two of their associates on several tax-related charges, as well as extortion.

 

 

This mindset is very common for rich people in the US.

And as I pointed out too many of these rich people sit on the political posts and Congress.

 

 

Edited by singalion
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On 5/6/2022 at 11:05 AM, InBangkok said:

Militarily China has never been an expansionist power. China's aim is absolutely to secure its borders so that the rape by colonial powers in the 19th and 20th centuries can never happen again.

 

Does this fit with what China is doing in the South China Sea?

 

 

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On 5/6/2022 at 1:58 PM, singalion said:

The turf around your house is always closer to you.

This point, I totally agree with, and that is why most countries still have a separate section in the news, focused on local news.

 

That said, I would then agree that European media have every "right" to focus on the conflict in the Ukraine, since it is in their backyard, so to speak. And a Russian victory in the Ukraine will have significant impact on the security of many European nations.

 

What about the US? They are on a different continent, a literal ocean away! Then again, they do love to get involved in everyone else's business, don't they? 🤣

 

On 5/6/2022 at 1:58 PM, singalion said:

Note that media and news was not as spread in 1940s compared to times after. People did not watch news on TV in those days. In many countries news was presented in cinemas, before your movie started.

 

Access to information was far more limited.

Am not talking of the world that was in post-WW2 mode, where most were just trying to rebuild what was lost. I realise that we about 80 years from WW2, but surely it should give us more perspective (considering that the span of time will enable more objectivity). However, until now, the general person will talk about the Jewish Holocaust (not wrong to talk about it), but would hardly know about what happened in Asia. Historians who talk about the European theatre would benefit from some comparison with the Asian theatre of WW2.

 

Of course, I am not asking people to stoke the flames, like how the Chinese (PRC) government continually does with the Japanese, provoking a lot of unnecessary hatred amongst the Chinese in China (PRC).

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@Steve5380conveniently forgets/ignores how homelessness impacts one's economic livelihood in the US. Without a registered address (if you are living rough), you are precluded from most job applications, thereby thwarting chances of getting out of poverty.

 

The sad thing about the Democrats is that while many talk about addressing the issues of the poor (and hence get their electoral support), many of the legislators, like what @InBangkokmentions, are rich and far removed from that the poor of society. In fact, if you look at local zoning laws, Democrats are famed from blocking the re-zoning of precincts to allow for multi-family housing developments, preferring to keep their pristine single-household houses.

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I am not one to support continued hatred against another group of people, due to historical grievances.

 

If you look at my family's history, my maternal grandfather miraculously escaped being mowed down by Japanese machine guns, after being marched off to a deserted part of Singapore, together with a large group of other men. He actually crawled out under the dead bodies after the Japanese had left, and secretly made his way home (covered in the blood of the other victims). My dad's aunt lost her entire family (she miraculously survived) when the Japanese massacred her entire extended family in Johor, Southern Malaysia.

 

Yet, I do look at it from the perspective that all war is cruel, and brings out the worst in people. I have good friends who are Japanese, and I do not take what happened against them. However, I hope that people will know these bits of history, so that they will try to avoid war at all costs.

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Guest The Reality
On 5/6/2022 at 11:33 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

 I had the opportunity to observe in the community of my German, Jewish family.

Stop over dramatising your background.  You are either  a Homosapien or Neanderthal.   Period.

 

On 5/6/2022 at 11:33 AM, Steve5380 said:

I think that the Japanese deserve respect for the way they recovered from their defeat in WWII 

The Germans acted in a similar way, with their Economic Miracle and pacifism, and deserve equal respect.

 

And then,  the Jews reacted to the Holocaust not by disappearing from sight but by building amazing strength with their state Israel. 

Don't pretend to leave out China. It is one largest country that went through the most hideous internal and external war and America is peeing in its pants after hearing China may soon become a super power nation.  even Japan, German and Israel COULD NOT MATCH!

 

 

 

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On 5/6/2022 at 12:50 AM, singalion said:

 

Steve, this post was surely not a masterpiece of tolerance.

 

At other threads you claim to be tolerant and inclusive.

 

But, reading your posts, you seem to be stuck in some racial lenses and preconceived concepts of seeing the world and it's people.

 

If you can't escape your prejudices then please don't claim that you are not racist.

 

 

 

Singalion, aren't you oversensitive in your rush to judge me?  Where was racism in my post?

 

Is it because I detected cynicism?   This is a universal trait of all races.

 

Ah... is it because I mentioned Asian slanted eyes?  Where do I put down slanted eyes?  On the contrary, I love them!

 

My daughter-in-law is of Korean descent.  Her son, my little grandson of 2 1/2 years old, has a beautiful face that is definitely Asian, and both my sister and I love it.  We will ask his parents not to have any epicanthoplasty  (simple surgery to eliminate the epicanthic fold) on him,  since we suspect his Korean mother had it done because her face does not have an Asian look.   We also are pleased that some Asian blood has entered the family, where it adds to the mixture of German (Caucasian), Jewish, French and maybe traces of American Native blood.  Just the opposite of racism!

 

We believe that it is with us like it is said of dogs:  the more mixed, the more intelligent and loyal, ha ha. 

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On 5/6/2022 at 5:54 AM, Guest The Reality said:

Stop over dramatising your background.  You are either  a Homosapien or Neanderthal.   Period.

 

Don't pretend to leave out China. It is one largest country that went through the most hideous internal and external war and America is peeing in its pants after hearing China may soon become a super power nation.  even Japan, German and Israel COULD NOT MATCH!

 

 

How am I dramatizing my heritage?   Shouldn't we all be proud of it, regardless of where we come from?

 

China has had also its share of vicissitudes, like other folk.  But I don't think it has recovered well yet. It is still governed by a totalitarian regime, which was also the case during most of the 20th century, with Mao, "red" Communism.  Today its strength comes from its economy, the product of the hard work of a population that has a lack of civil rights. In terms of modern technology its contribution is negative,  it has taken, taken, taken technology from other countries without returning much of it but only providing less expensive merchandise thanks to the exploitation of its population. 

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On 5/6/2022 at 2:41 AM, sgmaven said:

I am not one to support continued hatred against another group of people, due to historical grievances.

 

If you look at my family's history, my maternal grandfather miraculously escaped being mowed down by Japanese machine guns, after being marched off to a deserted part of Singapore, together with a large group of other men. He actually crawled out under the dead bodies after the Japanese had left, and secretly made his way home (covered in the blood of the other victims). My dad's aunt lost her entire family (she miraculously survived) when the Japanese massacred her entire extended family in Johor, Southern Malaysia.

 

Yet, I do look at it from the perspective that all war is cruel, and brings out the worst in people. I have good friends who are Japanese, and I do not take what happened against them. However, I hope that people will know these bits of history, so that they will try to avoid war at all costs.

 

Indeed,  I have ever known very little of the atrocities committed by the Japanese in China, while the Holocaust has always been in the forefront.  But then, when I started learning about the invasion of Singapore by the Japanese and what the invaders did...  shouldn't your people retain some gratitude from having been liberated by the Allies? Wasn't America a big factor in the defeat of Japan and therefore their retreat from Singapore?

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On 5/6/2022 at 2:31 AM, sgmaven said:

@Steve5380conveniently forgets/ignores how homelessness impacts one's economic livelihood in the US. Without a registered address (if you are living rough), you are precluded from most job applications, thereby thwarting chances of getting out of poverty.

 

The sad thing about the Democrats is that while many talk about addressing the issues of the poor (and hence get their electoral support), many of the legislators, like what @InBangkokmentions, are rich and far removed from that the poor of society. In fact, if you look at local zoning laws, Democrats are famed from blocking the re-zoning of precincts to allow for multi-family housing developments, preferring to keep their pristine single-household houses.

 

I also think that America is dangerously close to being an oligarchy based on wealth.  But I think that this is more the attribute of the Republicans, not the Democrats. 

 

Isn't Obama, a president from one of the most humble origins, a Democrat?  Isn't Trump, a president who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, a Republican?   Isn't today's Democrat administration unique in its effort to promote modest minorities?   A Black Secretary of Defense,  the first Black woman in the Supreme Court, and now, the first Black woman as White House Press Secretary.  

 

About homelessness this is predominant in California, and its causes may not be only poverty but also mental health.  Many troubled people CHOOSE to be homeless.

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On 5/6/2022 at 1:09 AM, singalion said:

 

This rich people are selfish and don't have a drive to help the poorer parts of society.

 

 

Oh... but this is not exclusively an American trait.   Doesn't Singapore have an amazing percentage of billionaires? Yet I have seen so many poor elders laying on benches in Chinatown...

 

And there is a notable exception:  the Bill Gates family is working tirelessly to help the poorer parts of society.

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On 5/6/2022 at 9:58 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

I also think that America is dangerously close to being an oligarchy based on wealth.  But I think that this is more the attribute of the Republicans, not the Democrats. 

 

Isn't Obama, a president from one of the most humble origins, a Democrat?  Isn't Trump, a president who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, a Republican?   Isn't today's Democrat administration unique in its effort to promote modest minorities?   A Black Secretary of Defense,  the first Black woman in the Supreme Court, and now, the first Black woman as White House Press Secretary.  

 

About homelessness this is predominant in California, and its causes may not be only poverty but also mental health.  Many troubled people CHOOSE to be homeless.

You are mistaken if I do not blame the Republicans for the poor distribution of wealth in the US. I blame BOTH the Republicans and the Democrats. Just that the Republicans tend to be more open about their support for policies that help the rich; whereas the Democrats tend to pretend to be there for the poor, but are in fact not really helping...

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On 5/6/2022 at 10:03 PM, Steve5380 said:

Oh... but this is not exclusively an American trait.   Doesn't Singapore have an amazing percentage of billionaires? Yet I have seen so many poor elders laying on benches in Chinatown...

 

And there is a notable exception:  the Bill Gates family is working tirelessly to help the poorer parts of society.

BTW, the percentage is not that high (I think you were referring to HK), but it is due to the "importation" of billionaires due to the lack of estate taxes and other policies that favour the rich to maintain wealth.

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On 5/6/2022 at 9:42 PM, Steve5380 said:

Indeed,  I have ever known very little of the atrocities committed by the Japanese in China, while the Holocaust has always been in the forefront.  But then, when I started learning about the invasion of Singapore by the Japanese and what the invaders did...  shouldn't your people retain some gratitude from having been liberated by the Allies? Wasn't America a big factor in the defeat of Japan and therefore their retreat from Singapore?

Trading one "colonial master" for another? Frankly, the Brits only milked their colonies for what they could provide (like many other colonial empires). That is why they are still relatively rich, despite the retreat of industry. One thing that the UK "blessed" the former colonies with, was the dirty practice of their banking system, borrowed from the City of London. Like many other former colonies, Singapore is also guilty of being a money-laundering centre, despite what the government may say.

 

Remember that after the Japanese surrender, the Brits came back to administer the Straits Settlements and other possessions in Asia, and it was only because they were literally bankrupted by WW2 (both by fighting the war, and borrowing from the US - who said the US didn't benefit from WW2) that they gave up on ruling their vast empire and slowly walked down the road of decolonisation.

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On 5/6/2022 at 9:54 AM, sgmaven said:

 

Trading one "colonial master" for another?

 

 

Really?  The Brits were as bad as the Japs?  I would not have imagined this.

 

But if so, even more the need to get rid of any unreasonable laws left behind from the Brits.  Like 377A...

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On 5/6/2022 at 9:44 AM, sgmaven said:

You are mistaken if I do not blame the Republicans for the poor distribution of wealth in the US. I blame BOTH the Republicans and the Democrats. Just that the Republicans tend to be more open about their support for policies that help the rich; whereas the Democrats tend to pretend to be there for the poor, but are in fact not really helping...

 

I also blame the Democrats for many things.  But at least they are progressive,  and they stand out for real RIGHTS that the Republicans don't recognize.  Like the right of same-sex people to marry, or to become transgender,  of women to have abortions.  I am against abortion, but I defend the right of choice,  like the majority of the pro-choice do.

 

Democrats want to limit the profiteering by the rich by increasing their taxes, while Republicans want to protect the rich by shielding their wealth. And let's not argue that this ideology by the Democrats is simply hypocrisy to please the masses.  One person like Senator Bernie Sanders is sincere in his fight to reduce wealth and income inequality.

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On 5/6/2022 at 11:33 PM, Steve5380 said:

Democrats want to limit the profiteering by the rich by increasing their taxes, while Republicans want to protect the rich by shielding their wealth. And let's not argue that this ideology by the Democrats is simply hypocrisy to please the masses.  One person like Senator Bernie Sanders is sincere in his fight to reduce wealth and income inequality.

To be accurate, Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. He runs as an independent, but tends to align with the Democrats in most policy votes. Do name a real representative from the Democrat Party who is that sincere... I would be impressed.

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On 5/6/2022 at 11:22 PM, Steve5380 said:

Really?  The Brits were as bad as the Japs?  I would not have imagined this.

 

But if so, even more the need to get rid of any unreasonable laws left behind from the Brits.  Like 377A...

While the Japanese were outwardly brutal, the Brits were much more insidious. Forget the Victorian laws, such as 377A, they also "influenced" the political system by detaining the politicians they did not like. Not a beacon for democracy, definitely. There are many ugly episodes from colonial history, but let's not get overly involved in that. This is a thread about Taiwan, not Singapore.

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Guest History Lesson again
On 5/6/2022 at 9:37 PM, Steve5380 said:

 

How am I dramatizing my heritage?   Shouldn't we all be proud of it, regardless of where we come from?

 

German massacre the Jews and the Jews massacre the palestinians?  You sure have everything in your bone to be "proud" of. 

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On 5/6/2022 at 9:19 PM, Guest History Lesson again said:

German massacre the Jews and the Jews massacre the palestinians?  You sure have everything in your bone to be "proud" of. 

 

That's right.  I have recently carried out a massacre of fire ants in my garden, plus a massacre of mosquitoes with my bug zapper.

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One point re Taiwan that is often forgotten is the horrors of Chiang Kai-shek's actions after he had been reinstalled as the ruler of mainland China following WWII. In 1947 he was determined that Taiwan would remain part of China. To quell a growing protest movement, he sent thousands of troops to the island. These troops treated the islanders abysmally. After a number of local protests when troops killed islanders and people just disappeared after being visited by the police, the troops started a mass slaughter around the island, mostly of 'elites' - doctors, professors, journalists.

 

In a May 24 issue of the newspaper Nation, an American correspondent wrote -

 

"China [i.e. Chiang] put down the insurrection with brutal repression, terror and massacre. Mainland soldiers and police fired first, killing thousands indiscriminately; then, more selectively, hunted down and jailed or slaughtered students, intellectuals, prominent business men, and civic leaders."

 

Almost 30,000 Taiwanese were killed and massacred. After Chiang and his two million followers arrived on the island in 1949, martial law was in force and for four decades these atrocities could not be discussed even privately. It was only in 1992, five years after the end of martial law and the death of Chiang's son and successor Chiang Ching-kuo, that the government in Taipei acknowledged that the atrocities were committed. The park close to where the annual Taipei Gay Pride Parade starts - and which was at one time almost the only place for gay cruising (the 1980s gay novel Crystal Boys is mostly set there) - is named Peace Park in response to the massacres.

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On 5/6/2022 at 9:44 PM, InBangkok said:

 

"China [i.e. Chiang] put down the insurrection with brutal repression, terror and massacre. Mainland soldiers and police fired first, killing thousands indiscriminately; then, more selectively, hunted down and jailed or slaughtered students, intellectuals, prominent business men, and civic leaders."

 

Almost 30,000 Taiwanese were killed and massacred. After Chiang and his two million followers arrived on the island in 1949, martial law was in force and for four decades these atrocities could not be discussed even privately. It was only in 1992, five years after the end of martial law and the death of Chiang's son and successor Chiang Ching-kuo, that the government in Taipei acknowledged that the atrocities were committed. The park close to where the annual Taipei Gay Pride Parade starts - and which was at one time almost the only place for gay cruising (the 1980s gay novel Crystal Boys is mostly set there) - is named Peace Park in response to the massacres.

 

 

With the attraction I have for young Asian guys,  I have the tendency of seeing Asians as nice and pacific people.  And young Japanese guys can be so cute!

 

But I realize that Asians are not different from other people.  The Asians soldiers who commit atrocities are also young people,  maybe cute in a sauna but not on the battlefield. 

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On 5/7/2022 at 9:56 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

With the attraction I have for young Asian guys,  I have the tendency of seeing Asians as nice and pacific people.  And young Japanese guys can be so cute!

 

But I realize that Asians are not different from other people.  The Asians soldiers who commit atrocities are also young people,  maybe cute in a sauna but not on the battlefield. 

What an insightful comment to a serious debate! A 79 year old with an attraction for 20 year old Asian boys. Now that travel is easy between the USA and Singapore, I suppose Singapore saunas will soon have the benefit of your patronage again.

Edited by InBangkok
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On 5/6/2022 at 10:02 PM, InBangkok said:

What an insightful comment to a serious debate! A 79 year old with an attraction for 20 year old Asian boys. Now that travel is easy between the USA and Singapore, I suppose Singapore saunas will soon have the benefit of your patronage again.

 

Yes, perhaps, when travel becomes easier again.  You are not material for Singapore saunas anymore, but you soon may be able to resume your trips around the world to listen to live music, when this industry recovers again.  

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Guest Hygiene Man
On 5/7/2022 at 10:42 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

That's right.  I have recently carried out a massacre of fire ants in my garden, plus a massacre of mosquitoes with my bug zapper.

Fire ants? Mosquitoes?  The last we heard you have plenty of spiders in your kitchen or was it just bees?  You need to get your butt off your PC and start doing thorough housekeeping daily/    

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On 5/7/2022 at 10:09 AM, Steve5380 said:

 

Yes, perhaps, when travel becomes easier again.  You are not material for Singapore saunas anymore, but you soon may be able to resume your trips around the world to listen to live music, when this industry recovers again.  

I have no interest in Singapore saunas - or saunas anywhere - as you know perfectly well from previous discussions. But I have started travelling again with a trip to Europe in March to launch my new book. I look forward to more trips in the near future.

 

When you suggest you might travel when it becomes easier again, it's already easy.

Edited by InBangkok
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